Update on Coworking in Gloucester, VA

So, in advance, this is going to be long. If you TLDR; this, I will understand. That said, I know there are many in this group who love coworking as a whole, enjoy cultivating it globally, and care enough to hear the stories and give the advice.

So here goes.

If you've been keeping up with me, you know that I felt the call a little over a month ago to begin the very first coworking space in Gloucester, Virginia. Gloucester is a tiny town of 30,000 people, located between Williamsburg and Virginia Beach. We're growing, and the dynamic and culture are shifting and moving in a very cool direction. I've always loved Gloucester, but it has been a town for older folks, most of whom are very blue-collared, who work in industrial and labor specific jobs. The young people have traditionally either gone to college and moved away, moved somewhere else for jobs, or stayed here and followed in the family business footsteps. Tech jobs and entrepreneurship did not have a place here 10 years ago. But that is changing and doing so rapidly.

It started for me the way it started for many of you. I worked for myself and needed a better place to get stuff done. And though I'm pretty introverted, I did miss opportunities to share and collaborate. At that point, I was completely unaware of what coworking even was. (I live in Gloucester, remember? :slight_smile: ) So, I started Googling for solutions, and that's when I found it. I feel like my life will never be the same. I Googled more. I found this group and voraciously read as many posts as I could. I read entire books. I watched hours of YouTube videos. (I believe I've seen almost every video on YouTube that has anything to do with Coworking, and I'm not kidding at all.) I've read/studied business plans, had conversations with other space owners, and tried to learn as much in a little amount of time as possible.

I focused on finding "my people," heeding the wisdom of Alex and the many others who said the same. I started a FB group for local entrepreneurs. I started having regular conversations and meetings with local business owners and people who work for themselves. After a couple of weeks, it became clear that there was a need for a coworking space in this community, and that it appeared it would be well received.

So, I created a second FB page -- this time one just for the coworking idea/space. Not all in the entrepreneurs group were interested in or needed a coworking space, so I wanted to go further and isolate on the target market I wanted without cluttering a channel for those who did not want/need it.

A couple of weeks ago, I was contacted by some long-time friends of mine who had recently purchased a building on Main Street in the heart of our County's downtown area. They purchased it in November and had kind of been in a quandary over how to use it. They had seen my posts on FB and were interested in the idea. After a few days of talking/thinking it over, we were sold on working together, and they decided they wanted to let me use the first floor of their two-story building for coworking.

They have committed to doing all of the furnishing and upfitting, based on my recommendations. They are going to be leasing the second story out to tenants who need office space, and that will operate separately from the first-floor coworking space. With that said, they have also said that they are only going to allow one-year, max leases for upstairs because they want to leave the possibility open for the coworking space to blow up and end up needing to take over the second story as well. This would be great because it would give us a chance to grow, get our feet wet, and then in a year, we can offer private offices too, plus another large room for more coworking. But that, of course, depends on us doing a good job and the community rallying around this.

The space is currently being renovated, and the plan is that when we get it looking fit enough for viewing (finish up painting, get all the walls patched and presentable, etc), we will host a meet and greet/walkthrough for the community. We will promote it on our website, FB, our email list, and also through the local newspaper and radio (I have connections at both media resources and get this advertising for free).

I've recently reached out to the ones who have expressed the most serious interest in the space (my email list -- 13 of them to be exact) and have asked them for their input on several items -- most important of those being the name of the space and the pricing of the membership tiers.

So far, "The Hive" has been the overwhelming favorite. I know. There are a ton of coworking spaces with that name. I've heard you guys loud and clear on that. However, I have not pushed for it. The community wants it. Beehives have a very specific significance in this area, and I'm not even sure I could talk them out of it at this point. I know I can call it whatever I want, but I don't want to be a dictator. We'll see. :slight_smile:

At this point, a concern of mine is that I haven't totally worked out the business arrangement between myself and the building owners. It didn't bother me at first. I trusted (and still do trust) their benevolent spirit and the fact that they want to see me and this idea succeed. However, I know a firm lease agreement needs to be worked out, and it needs to be clarified that they are the building owners, and this is my business.

What I'm considering doing is going ahead and forming my own LLC through LegalZoom, then suggesting a lease agreement that is heavily slanted in their favor for the first portion of it so that they can get their investment back (front loaded), then would shift/even out towards something regular and not based on what I'm bringing in. Advice on this appreciated.

While rushing to launch can usually be death (or at least ailment), in this instance, there is not much cause to delay, as the building and upfit are secured, and the longer it sits unused, the owners are losing money. So, my goal/hope is to launch by June 1st.

If you're interested in more info about what we're doing, you can check out our Facebook page at www.facebook.com/coworkgloucesterva, and our homepage at www.coworkgloucesterva.com.

All encouragement, tough love, feedback and words of wisdom welcomed and appreciated!

Hi Kevin,

I’m where you started a little over a month ago. I’m just getting the cowork fever and am eager to follow your progress. I live in a Galveston, Texas – a seaport town on a barrier Island with roughly 50,000 full time residents. We have a mostly older demographic, similar to Glo, but an above national average number of small businesses and self-employed folks. We also have a booming tourist industry (approx. 6 million annually) that’s catalyzing an entrepenuer vibe on our already quirky island. I don’t know enough to provide much feedback, but I wanted you to know that I’m rooting for you and can’t wait to see the launch!

One suggestion on a name since bees seem to have a special place in the Glo heart – Honeycomb. Everything is connected for a delicious end goal.

Erica

···

On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 at 11:32:53 AM UTC-5, Kevin Haggerty wrote:

So, in advance, this is going to be long. If you TLDR; this, I will understand. That said, I know there are many in this group who love coworking as a whole, enjoy cultivating it globally, and care enough to hear the stories and give the advice.
So here goes.

If you’ve been keeping up with me, you know that I felt the call a little over a month ago to begin the very first coworking space in Gloucester, Virginia. Gloucester is a tiny town of 30,000 people, located between Williamsburg and Virginia Beach. We’re growing, and the dynamic and culture are shifting and moving in a very cool direction. I’ve always loved Gloucester, but it has been a town for older folks, most of whom are very blue-collared, who work in industrial and labor specific jobs. The young people have traditionally either gone to college and moved away, moved somewhere else for jobs, or stayed here and followed in the family business footsteps. Tech jobs and entrepreneurship did not have a place here 10 years ago. But that is changing and doing so rapidly.

It started for me the way it started for many of you. I worked for myself and needed a better place to get stuff done. And though I’m pretty introverted, I did miss opportunities to share and collaborate. At that point, I was completely unaware of what coworking even was. (I live in Gloucester, remember? :slight_smile: ) So, I started Googling for solutions, and that’s when I found it. I feel like my life will never be the same. I Googled more. I found this group and voraciously read as many posts as I could. I read entire books. I watched hours of YouTube videos. (I believe I’ve seen almost every video on YouTube that has anything to do with Coworking, and I’m not kidding at all.) I’ve read/studied business plans, had conversations with other space owners, and tried to learn as much in a little amount of time as possible.

I focused on finding “my people,” heeding the wisdom of Alex and the many others who said the same. I started a FB group for local entrepreneurs. I started having regular conversations and meetings with local business owners and people who work for themselves. After a couple of weeks, it became clear that there was a need for a coworking space in this community, and that it appeared it would be well received.

So, I created a second FB page – this time one just for the coworking idea/space. Not all in the entrepreneurs group were interested in or needed a coworking space, so I wanted to go further and isolate on the target market I wanted without cluttering a channel for those who did not want/need it.

A couple of weeks ago, I was contacted by some long-time friends of mine who had recently purchased a building on Main Street in the heart of our County’s downtown area. They purchased it in November and had kind of been in a quandary over how to use it. They had seen my posts on FB and were interested in the idea. After a few days of talking/thinking it over, we were sold on working together, and they decided they wanted to let me use the first floor of their two-story building for coworking.

They have committed to doing all of the furnishing and upfitting, based on my recommendations. They are going to be leasing the second story out to tenants who need office space, and that will operate separately from the first-floor coworking space. With that said, they have also said that they are only going to allow one-year, max leases for upstairs because they want to leave the possibility open for the coworking space to blow up and end up needing to take over the second story as well. This would be great because it would give us a chance to grow, get our feet wet, and then in a year, we can offer private offices too, plus another large room for more coworking. But that, of course, depends on us doing a good job and the community rallying around this.

The space is currently being renovated, and the plan is that when we get it looking fit enough for viewing (finish up painting, get all the walls patched and presentable, etc), we will host a meet and greet/walkthrough for the community. We will promote it on our website, FB, our email list, and also through the local newspaper and radio (I have connections at both media resources and get this advertising for free).

I’ve recently reached out to the ones who have expressed the most serious interest in the space (my email list – 13 of them to be exact) and have asked them for their input on several items – most important of those being the name of the space and the pricing of the membership tiers.

So far, “The Hive” has been the overwhelming favorite. I know. There are a ton of coworking spaces with that name. I’ve heard you guys loud and clear on that. However, I have not pushed for it. The community wants it. Beehives have a very specific significance in this area, and I’m not even sure I could talk them out of it at this point. I know I can call it whatever I want, but I don’t want to be a dictator. We’ll see. :slight_smile:

At this point, a concern of mine is that I haven’t totally worked out the business arrangement between myself and the building owners. It didn’t bother me at first. I trusted (and still do trust) their benevolent spirit and the fact that they want to see me and this idea succeed. However, I know a firm lease agreement needs to be worked out, and it needs to be clarified that they are the building owners, and this is my business.

What I’m considering doing is going ahead and forming my own LLC through LegalZoom, then suggesting a lease agreement that is heavily slanted in their favor for the first portion of it so that they can get their investment back (front loaded), then would shift/even out towards something regular and not based on what I’m bringing in. Advice on this appreciated.

While rushing to launch can usually be death (or at least ailment), in this instance, there is not much cause to delay, as the building and upfit are secured, and the longer it sits unused, the owners are losing money. So, my goal/hope is to launch by June 1st.

If you’re interested in more info about what we’re doing, you can check out our Facebook page at www.facebook.com/coworkgloucesterva, and our homepage at www.coworkgloucesterva.com.

All encouragement, tough love, feedback and words of wisdom welcomed and appreciated!

Erica,

Thanks for responding and for sharing about your journey. I appreciate your support, and I'll be rooting for you too!

A tidbit I'll share with you that ay or may not be helpful:

I'm not sure if you plan to spearhead this yourself or if you have or are seeking partners. However, if your situation is anything like mine because it's such a new idea and in a community that badly needs it, people may start to gravitate to you as they are now doing so with me. I fully admit that I didn't go to school for business and that isn't really my forte. I'm super trusting of people and their intentions, and sometimes that gets me in trouble. I ay all that to say this: Be careful/wary of people who would come in and want to partner. I hate to say that because this movement is so about collaboration and sharing, but it's really important to spell out intentions and the numbers early on. I allowed myself to be in a situation where we kind of breezed past that, and now the situation is awkward. I wish I'd been firm on that early on, and I hope to let you (and anyone else reading this) learn from my mistake.

I like the Honeycomb suggestion! Even if we don't use that, it gets me pointed in a new creative direction. Thanks!

“I hate to say that because this movement is so about collaboration and sharing, but it’s really important to spell out intentions and the numbers early on. I allowed myself to be in a situation where we kind of breezed past that, and now the situation is awkward.”

Ouch. I feel ya.

Relationships before transactions. This is a fundamental for any successful collaboration, and in my experience a core tenant of successful coworking.

I spent an entire chapter**of my audiobook on this, and how my partner and I teamed up. There’s a ~5 minute preview up on soundcloud…check out it out: https://soundcloud.com/coworkingweeklyshow/chapter-8-preview-partnership-and-payoff

-Alex

···

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Kevin Haggerty [email protected] wrote:

Erica,

Thanks for responding and for sharing about your journey. I appreciate your support, and I’ll be rooting for you too!

A tidbit I’ll share with you that ay or may not be helpful:

I’m not sure if you plan to spearhead this yourself or if you have or are seeking partners. However, if your situation is anything like mine because it’s such a new idea and in a community that badly needs it, people may start to gravitate to you as they are now doing so with me. I fully admit that I didn’t go to school for business and that isn’t really my forte. I’m super trusting of people and their intentions, and sometimes that gets me in trouble. I ay all that to say this: Be careful/wary of people who would come in and want to partner. I hate to say that because this movement is so about collaboration and sharing, but it’s really important to spell out intentions and the numbers early on. I allowed myself to be in a situation where we kind of breezed past that, and now the situation is awkward. I wish I’d been firm on that early on, and I hope to let you (and anyone else reading this) learn from my mistake.

I like the Honeycomb suggestion! Even if we don’t use that, it gets me pointed in a new creative direction. Thanks!

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


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The #1 mistake in community building is doing it by yourself.

Better Coworkers: http://indyhall.org

Weekly Coworking Tips: http://coworkingweekly.com

My Audiobook: https://theindyhallway.com/ten

Hey Alex,

I just purchased your audiobook and plan to listen to it today. I'm excited about it!

Here's the deal with my situation. I had been posting on FB for a while about coworking, when a person I've known for a few years messaged me and asked if we could meet. She and her husband (I've known them both for several years.) had bought a house on Main St that used to be a law office building. They'd been kind of sitting on it more or less for a few months not really having much of an idea what to do with it. Then, they saw my posts, and thought it was an interesting idea.

So we met at the house and started walking through. I told them my thoughts, and I even started to give specifics on potential layout.

This all transitioned to a meeting where they suggested allowing me to have the run of the first floor for coworking. They would pay for all the upfitting and furnishing and even get the exact furniture I specified on. They would pay for the networking of the building, security, insurance, maintenance and landscaping, and even the monthly internet bill.

This all sounded great to me because I have little to no capital right now, and it allowed me the opportunity to get started right away without having to fundraise, etc. They seem really excited about the idea, about working with me, and how it could be positive for our community. They've even said they will be limiting the upstairs tenants to one-year leases so that if the coworking space takes off, we can have the upstairs too for expansion.

I've tried a couple times to bring up what our lease agreement would be, as well as what our business relationship would be, specifically. So far, all they have said is that they want to give the space the best chance to succeed, so instead of giving a hard number or specific lease, they would just take a percentage of what comes in at first as we get on our feet. There's been no discussion beyond that. I wasn't really anxious about it until a week or so ago when multiple mentors in my life advised me to get things nailed down.

Here's what I'm proposing. (I would LOVE your feedback!):

- I will go ahead and incorporate under an LLC for the coworking business so I'm protected.
- I will pay for the internet for the downstairs to keep things neater.
- I'll also have my own insurance/liability policy for the downstairs and my business.
- I will suggest that if they are indeed paying for 100% of the upfit, they will get 100% of what comes in, minus my monthly bills/expenses (internet, insurance, coffee/amenities, Nexudus subscription, maintenance), until they recoup all of their expenses for upfit. (I run my own web/graphic design company, and I do not intend for the coworking space to be a source of revenue for me at first. I hear that a lot of spaces are not profitable for the first year anyway, so it seems this would work out.)
- If the space fails (don't want to think that way but things happen) my company and I would not be on the hook for the rest of the expenses, but we also would not get to keep anything. They bought it. They keep it.
- Once they've recouped everything, we'd convert to a standard lease agreement and negotiate at that point as to what the terms would be.

I understand that puts me a little more at their mercy when it comes to the negotiating later down the road because if the space really takes off, they could ask an arm and a leg for rent. However, it allows me to start without capital, and to really get the model on its feet with no overhead or debt, and then if they do end up being unreasonable about the rent amount, I still own the business and can take it elsewhere as an attractive commodity.

I'm pretty much begging for input. :slight_smile:

Thanks!

This sounds super, super messy.

Part of the reason Indy Hall has been around for a decade is because my #1 goal from the beginning was for the community to be self-sufficient in supporting the space it calls home. Can bad things happen? Of course, that’s life, and we went through some of the hardest times in the last 2 years when our landlord tried to strong arm me into buying the building we were in, and I called their bluff. But I knew that our worst case scenario there was that our community supported itself. We weren’t bound to that landlord, just like we’re not bound to anybody but ourselves. (sidenote: during our real estate search I interacted with >120 landlords, and from them found two that I’d even consider working with, and one of them who I’d consider a joint venture with. the only reason I’d consider a JV is because of his industry credibility and ours are reasonably matched, and we both bring value besides the deal to the table.

It lets us say yes to stuff other people wouldn’t be able to, and lets us say no to stuff that other coworking spaces feel obligated to. Own your shit. Future you (and your future community members) will thank you.

All of the “ifs” in your proposal mean that this scenario is based around ambiguity and protecting your downsides. On their end, you’re interchangeable with any other tenant, and they’re in the drivers seat. If your job is looking out for the best long-term interests of your community (p.s. that’s what your job is), then this would put the community at risk of being “homeless” and unable to support ourselves. It might seem harder now, but learning to be self-sufficient when you’re tiny is a LOT easier than learning it later, and when the pressure is on.

When you listen to that chapter about partnership, I talk a bit about managing upsides and downsides, including an example of a landlord coming to someone who runs a coworking space and offering them the world…a deal that seemed great on paper but meant that the landlord had all of the leverage to put his community out on their asses when a better biz opportunity came along. And guess what happened…

I know there are people on this list who have done Joint Ventures, and some people who advocate strongly for them. I’m not one of them, because I’ve seen far more go south than have worked out. Obviously, your milage may vary.

-Alex

···

The #1 mistake in community building is doing it by yourself.

Better Coworkers: http://indyhall.org

Weekly Coworking Tips: http://coworkingweekly.com

My Audiobook: https://theindyhallway.com/ten

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 12:12 PM, Kevin Haggerty [email protected] wrote:

Hey Alex,

I just purchased your audiobook and plan to listen to it today. I’m excited about it!

Here’s the deal with my situation. I had been posting on FB for a while about coworking, when a person I’ve known for a few years messaged me and asked if we could meet. She and her husband (I’ve known them both for several years.) had bought a house on Main St that used to be a law office building. They’d been kind of sitting on it more or less for a few months not really having much of an idea what to do with it. Then, they saw my posts, and thought it was an interesting idea.

So we met at the house and started walking through. I told them my thoughts, and I even started to give specifics on potential layout.

This all transitioned to a meeting where they suggested allowing me to have the run of the first floor for coworking. They would pay for all the upfitting and furnishing and even get the exact furniture I specified on. They would pay for the networking of the building, security, insurance, maintenance and landscaping, and even the monthly internet bill.

This all sounded great to me because I have little to no capital right now, and it allowed me the opportunity to get started right away without having to fundraise, etc. They seem really excited about the idea, about working with me, and how it could be positive for our community. They’ve even said they will be limiting the upstairs tenants to one-year leases so that if the coworking space takes off, we can have the upstairs too for expansion.

I’ve tried a couple times to bring up what our lease agreement would be, as well as what our business relationship would be, specifically. So far, all they have said is that they want to give the space the best chance to succeed, so instead of giving a hard number or specific lease, they would just take a percentage of what comes in at first as we get on our feet. There’s been no discussion beyond that. I wasn’t really anxious about it until a week or so ago when multiple mentors in my life advised me to get things nailed down.

Here’s what I’m proposing. (I would LOVE your feedback!):

  • I will go ahead and incorporate under an LLC for the coworking business so I’m protected.

  • I will pay for the internet for the downstairs to keep things neater.

  • I’ll also have my own insurance/liability policy for the downstairs and my business.

  • I will suggest that if they are indeed paying for 100% of the upfit, they will get 100% of what comes in, minus my monthly bills/expenses (internet, insurance, coffee/amenities, Nexudus subscription, maintenance), until they recoup all of their expenses for upfit. (I run my own web/graphic design company, and I do not intend for the coworking space to be a source of revenue for me at first. I hear that a lot of spaces are not profitable for the first year anyway, so it seems this would work out.)

  • If the space fails (don’t want to think that way but things happen) my company and I would not be on the hook for the rest of the expenses, but we also would not get to keep anything. They bought it. They keep it.

  • Once they’ve recouped everything, we’d convert to a standard lease agreement and negotiate at that point as to what the terms would be.

I understand that puts me a little more at their mercy when it comes to the negotiating later down the road because if the space really takes off, they could ask an arm and a leg for rent. However, it allows me to start without capital, and to really get the model on its feet with no overhead or debt, and then if they do end up being unreasonable about the rent amount, I still own the business and can take it elsewhere as an attractive commodity.

I’m pretty much begging for input. :slight_smile:

Thanks!

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


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Alex,

I appreciate your input massively, but I must admit, I now feel terribly torn and conflicted. I have to meet with these folks tomorrow evening, and I am not sure how to proceed. I know you don't want to be responsible for what I do or what anyone else does, but if you were in my shoes, you'd walk away from this completely? Do you not see any upside or ways I can structure it in my favor? What if I got them to agree to give us six months regardless so that it's in writing that they can't kick us out prior to that? What if it was also in the agreement that I had complete control over how I ran my business and how the downstairs was put together and organized?

Thanks,

Kevin

If you think this conversation is awkward now…here’s the kind of scenarios you need to think about:

You’re not growing your membership fast enough to satisfy them. They decide something needs to change. What options do they have that you might not want? What kind of conversations are you going to have to have with them when you say “no, we don’t want to do X, that’s the wrong way for us to grow the membership.”

How do you respond, then?

It sounds like this couple is nice, and has the best of intentions. That’s a big step in the right direction from some of the craziness I (and I know others) have experienced.

Here’s how I’d think about proceeding.

**First: remember that this space is not your only option. No space is perfect, no deal is perfect. Don’t treat this option as precious. **

Second: I’d start with getting the numbers you need to be autonomous. If you don’t even know what the lease would be, and what the fit-out would cost, you’re not really negotiating…you’re just letting them drive, ya know? How much of that fit-out is gonna need to be done for any tenant, vs stuff that’s special for you?

Once you have those numbers, I’d crunch them to figure out what it’d take to run this autonomously. Figure out your membership rates, and how many members at each level you need to make it work, and be sustainable.

Take that information back to your community. Say “hey, here’s what we need to make this work. who’s in?”

Assess how close you are to being able to make it work with the community you already have. Is closing that gap achievable on your own? Brainstorm with the members. You don’t have to get them involved in the negotiation, but every time I share a specific problem with our community and invite ideas, I get back the most amazing stuff: example 1, example 2, example 3

Then, you can start weighing those options against the version where the landlord basically owns you. :wink:

-Alex

···

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Kevin Haggerty [email protected] wrote:

Alex,

I appreciate your input massively, but I must admit, I now feel terribly torn and conflicted. I have to meet with these folks tomorrow evening, and I am not sure how to proceed. I know you don’t want to be responsible for what I do or what anyone else does, but if you were in my shoes, you’d walk away from this completely? Do you not see any upside or ways I can structure it in my favor? What if I got them to agree to give us six months regardless so that it’s in writing that they can’t kick us out prior to that? What if it was also in the agreement that I had complete control over how I ran my business and how the downstairs was put together and organized?

Thanks,

Kevin

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


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The #1 mistake in community building is doing it by yourself.

Better Coworkers: http://indyhall.org

Weekly Coworking Tips: http://coworkingweekly.com

My Audiobook: https://theindyhallway.com/ten

“If you think this conversation is awkward now…”

and I will add, any awkwardness you are facing now will get 1,000x worse once money starts getting thrown around. Of COURSE this sounds like a great deal to the building owner. You are doing all the work and they get an updated building and all your revenue for maybe 6 years.

The building is merely a container. It’s not a magic button. I would press a big PAUSE button right now on all of this and do due diligence on other spaces as you continue to build up awareness and community. Also brace yourselves for when that building owner starts their own coworking space and maybe beats you to it. Says the lady whose landlord forced her out and started his own “coworking” space.

Space is impermanent, people are forever.

Angel

ps. and for a revealing look at how I didn’t listen to my intuition for Cohere’s 2nd space read more here. http://coherecommunity.com/blog/failure

···

On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 11:01:16 AM UTC-6, Alex Hillman wrote:

If you think this conversation is awkward now…here’s the kind of scenarios you need to think about:

You’re not growing your membership fast enough to satisfy them. They decide something needs to change. What options do they have that you might not want? What kind of conversations are you going to have to have with them when you say “no, we don’t want to do X, that’s the wrong way for us to grow the membership.”

How do you respond, then?

It sounds like this couple is nice, and has the best of intentions. That’s a big step in the right direction from some of the craziness I (and I know others) have experienced.

Here’s how I’d think about proceeding.

**First: remember that this space is not your only option. No space is perfect, no deal is perfect. Don’t treat this option as precious. **

Second: I’d start with getting the numbers you need to be autonomous. If you don’t even know what the lease would be, and what the fit-out would cost, you’re not really negotiating…you’re just letting them drive, ya know? How much of that fit-out is gonna need to be done for any tenant, vs stuff that’s special for you?

Once you have those numbers, I’d crunch them to figure out what it’d take to run this autonomously. Figure out your membership rates, and how many members at each level you need to make it work, and be sustainable.

Take that information back to your community. Say “hey, here’s what we need to make this work. who’s in?”

Assess how close you are to being able to make it work with the community you already have. Is closing that gap achievable on your own? Brainstorm with the members. You don’t have to get them involved in the negotiation, but every time I share a specific problem with our community and invite ideas, I get back the most amazing stuff: example 1, example 2, example 3

Then, you can start weighing those options against the version where the landlord basically owns you. :wink:

-Alex


The #1 mistake in community building is doing it by yourself.

Better Coworkers: http://indyhall.org

Weekly Coworking Tips: http://coworkingweekly.com

My Audiobook: https://theindyhallway.com/ten

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Kevin Haggerty [email protected] wrote:

Alex,

I appreciate your input massively, but I must admit, I now feel terribly torn and conflicted. I have to meet with these folks tomorrow evening, and I am not sure how to proceed. I know you don’t want to be responsible for what I do or what anyone else does, but if you were in my shoes, you’d walk away from this completely? Do you not see any upside or ways I can structure it in my favor? What if I got them to agree to give us six months regardless so that it’s in writing that they can’t kick us out prior to that? What if it was also in the agreement that I had complete control over how I ran my business and how the downstairs was put together and organized?

Thanks,

Kevin

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and this little zinger from that blog post I just shared,

“As the community manager, I had nothing left to give the people of Cothere. My usual zest for connection and energy to give and listen was tapped out. My arms, my heart, my brain, were overwhelmed by TRYING to figure out how hold a container that didn’t actually belong to me. To us.”

···

On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 11:01:16 AM UTC-6, Alex Hillman wrote:

If you think this conversation is awkward now…here’s the kind of scenarios you need to think about:

You’re not growing your membership fast enough to satisfy them. They decide something needs to change. What options do they have that you might not want? What kind of conversations are you going to have to have with them when you say “no, we don’t want to do X, that’s the wrong way for us to grow the membership.”

How do you respond, then?

It sounds like this couple is nice, and has the best of intentions. That’s a big step in the right direction from some of the craziness I (and I know others) have experienced.

Here’s how I’d think about proceeding.

**First: remember that this space is not your only option. No space is perfect, no deal is perfect. Don’t treat this option as precious. **

Second: I’d start with getting the numbers you need to be autonomous. If you don’t even know what the lease would be, and what the fit-out would cost, you’re not really negotiating…you’re just letting them drive, ya know? How much of that fit-out is gonna need to be done for any tenant, vs stuff that’s special for you?

Once you have those numbers, I’d crunch them to figure out what it’d take to run this autonomously. Figure out your membership rates, and how many members at each level you need to make it work, and be sustainable.

Take that information back to your community. Say “hey, here’s what we need to make this work. who’s in?”

Assess how close you are to being able to make it work with the community you already have. Is closing that gap achievable on your own? Brainstorm with the members. You don’t have to get them involved in the negotiation, but every time I share a specific problem with our community and invite ideas, I get back the most amazing stuff: example 1, example 2, example 3

Then, you can start weighing those options against the version where the landlord basically owns you. :wink:

-Alex


The #1 mistake in community building is doing it by yourself.

Better Coworkers: http://indyhall.org

Weekly Coworking Tips: http://coworkingweekly.com

My Audiobook: https://theindyhallway.com/ten

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Kevin Haggerty [email protected] wrote:

Alex,

I appreciate your input massively, but I must admit, I now feel terribly torn and conflicted. I have to meet with these folks tomorrow evening, and I am not sure how to proceed. I know you don’t want to be responsible for what I do or what anyone else does, but if you were in my shoes, you’d walk away from this completely? Do you not see any upside or ways I can structure it in my favor? What if I got them to agree to give us six months regardless so that it’s in writing that they can’t kick us out prior to that? What if it was also in the agreement that I had complete control over how I ran my business and how the downstairs was put together and organized?

Thanks,

Kevin

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


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Hi, Kevin!

I like joint ventures very well, I run a network of 6 spaces all but one of which are joint ventures of various types. The one I own so I never had any landlord problems with it. :slight_smile:

I think they are a good way to do business when done well. You have been doing very well! Um, right up to the part where it was time to close the deal which is not at all uncommon. We are not born knowing how to think about this stuff.

I think you are selling yourself and your nascent community too cheaply and overvaluing what they are offering. Here’s the thing: you value what they have because you do not have it. Your job now is to cause them to value what you have because they do not have it.

A joint venture works only if everyone is valued. Also you and your community.

Begin as you mean to go on, my mother told me when I was dating. This means you do not start off on one foot (slanted in their direction) and then shift as you go. It means you start off as people working together and you stay that way. Much easier for everybody.

Let’s think out of the box a little bit.

Why do you want a lease agreement at all?

Why not have a joint venture with the building owner? They let you use the space on the following terms, blah blah blah. You exploit the space on the following terms, blah blah blah. You pay these costs, they pay those costs. You keep the books in x program and they have collaborator access to the books. You maintain your community in this way and they have/do not have access to the CMS. You split the income like this. They give you permission to sublet to your coworkers and give you a Power of Attorney to sign contracts to that effect.

Just for example. Where the boundaries are varies greatly from space to space I have found, I have one location where the owner opens the door and that’s pretty much all they do, I have another where they do nearly all of it but the administration. And everything in between.

If liability is a concern you can still set up an LLC for your side of the agreement. You probably should

My approach is pretty radical, my contract is for example terminable on 30 day notice. But I figure if we are not happy together what’s the point of dragging it out? And it does give us all great motivation to work together and keep each other happy.

Anyway, how you do it depends on you and on them. But I really do urge you to not sell yourself and your community short. They have what you don’t and you have what they don’t. Sounds like a win-win to me.

HI Kevin,
I live in Gloucester ,am part of the tech community, and have poor internet. It will be interesting to see how Gloucester adopts the new idea. I am looking forward to any new updates!

Hi, Theresa! Just sent you an email. Nice to meet you!

Hi Kevin, which email address did it go to?

···

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 11:17:50 AM UTC-4, Kevin Haggerty wrote:

Hi, Theresa! Just sent you an email. Nice to meet you!

[email protected]

···

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Theresa Hoskins [email protected] wrote:

Hi, Theresa! Just sent you an email. Nice to meet you!

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 11:17:50 AM UTC-4, Kevin Haggerty wrote:
Hi Kevin, which email address did it go to?

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KEVIN HAGGERTY

OWNER/OPERATOR KR GRAPHIX

CO-OWNER COWORK GLOUCESTER VA

I pmed you on facebook with a better one

···

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 12:55:40 PM UTC-4, Kevin Haggerty wrote:

[email protected]

KEVIN HAGGERTY

OWNER/OPERATOR KR GRAPHIX

CO-OWNER COWORK GLOUCESTER VA

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Theresa Hoskins [email protected] wrote:

Hi, Theresa! Just sent you an email. Nice to meet you!

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 11:17:50 AM UTC-4, Kevin Haggerty wrote:
Hi Kevin, which email address did it go to?

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