How Niche Can You Go?

Hello. First post here :slight_smile:

I’m a photographer from Brooklyn, NY and I’m interested in opening a shared creative space for others in the photo business – photographers, hair/makeup, stylists, etc. I’ve located an excellent 7,000 sq. ft space and have done a couple of layout plans that map back to two different business models.

1: Shared Desks + Studio

This idea cuts the space into 2/3rds hot desks, permanent desks and a couple of offices with 1/3 remaining for a single large studio space. This allows for daily drop ins, month to month desk and a couple closed office rentals and is designed to provide a steadier cash flow for the space while also providing a very nice shoot space.

2: Three Studios

This idea removes all of the desks and offices and uses almost the entire floor for three studio spaces (plus a nice common area with couches and a conference room). This is more what I feel like I want to do, but it relies completely on community members booking the studios regularly to support the community. To do this, I have to charge a higher monthly price point for even the lowest tier.

I’m wondering… is option 2 just too much of a niche? Option 1 seems like the smarter business decision, but I really like the concept of 2.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Hey Geoffrey! Welcome to the list :slight_smile:

You say that Option 2 is more like what you want to do (in spite of knowing that it’s a potentially weaker model). What makes you more interested in Option 2?

-Alex

···

The #1 mistake in community building is doing it by yourself.

Join the list: http://coworkingweekly.com

Listen to the podcast: http://dangerouslyawesome.com/podcast

On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 10:53 PM, Geoffrey Badner [email protected] wrote:

Hello. First post here :slight_smile:

I’m a photographer from Brooklyn, NY and I’m interested in opening a shared creative space for others in the photo business – photographers, hair/makeup, stylists, etc. I’ve located an excellent 7,000 sq. ft space and have done a couple of layout plans that map back to two different business models.

1: Shared Desks + Studio

This idea cuts the space into 2/3rds hot desks, permanent desks and a couple of offices with 1/3 remaining for a single large studio space. This allows for daily drop ins, month to month desk and a couple closed office rentals and is designed to provide a steadier cash flow for the space while also providing a very nice shoot space.

2: Three Studios

This idea removes all of the desks and offices and uses almost the entire floor for three studio spaces (plus a nice common area with couches and a conference room). This is more what I feel like I want to do, but it relies completely on community members booking the studios regularly to support the community. To do this, I have to charge a higher monthly price point for even the lowest tier.

I’m wondering… is option 2 just too much of a niche? Option 1 seems like the smarter business decision, but I really like the concept of 2.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


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Community is everything. So I would start talking to other photographers and see what they think.

My gut is that option one looks good on paper but I wonder if phtootographers will ever use a drop in desk? Photographers in our space use the small meeting rooms to meet with clients.

Also, people are looking for meeting/event space in unique settings. Booking a studio for a networking event may be very appealing. So there's a rev stream you may not be anticipating.

Alex & Katherine,
Thanks for your replies.

Option #2 “feels” better to me because that was my original idea. After looking for ways to fund the space (at NYC rents) the coworking space came into the picture. I’ve worked in several coworking spaces in NYC and always felt they were lacking in ways that I could improve on.

That issue aside, your comments echo those of others who have seen the space I’m considering. They seem to feel that, even with having the two spaces well separated and insulated for sound, having people shooting in the studio will disrupt the coworking space. Also, having people in the studio worry about annoying the people in the office areas would bring an an unappealing worry to the creative space.

I think I’ll probably end up with something similar to these membership-based shoot studios:

http://westststudios.com

http://studioslic.com (I’m currently a member here)

Just not confident I can afford to do this in the space I want.

Thanks!

~ Geoffrey

···

On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 12:58:03 PM UTC-4, Geoffrey Badner wrote:

Hello. First post here :slight_smile:

I’m a photographer from Brooklyn, NY and I’m interested in opening a shared creative space for others in the photo business – photographers, hair/makeup, stylists, etc. I’ve located an excellent 7,000 sq. ft space and have done a couple of layout plans that map back to two different business models.

1: Shared Desks + Studio

This idea cuts the space into 2/3rds hot desks, permanent desks and a couple of offices with 1/3 remaining for a single large studio space. This allows for daily drop ins, month to month desk and a couple closed office rentals and is designed to provide a steadier cash flow for the space while also providing a very nice shoot space.

2: Three Studios

This idea removes all of the desks and offices and uses almost the entire floor for three studio spaces (plus a nice common area with couches and a conference room). This is more what I feel like I want to do, but it relies completely on community members booking the studios regularly to support the community. To do this, I have to charge a higher monthly price point for even the lowest tier.

I’m wondering… is option 2 just too much of a niche? Option 1 seems like the smarter business decision, but I really like the concept of 2.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Option #2 “feels” better to me because that was my original idea.

That was my hunch :slight_smile:

Two warnings:

1 - Coworking as a way to subsidize the cost of a space you’d like to have but can’t afford, more often than not, ends up with you taking on even MORE space than you need and then being financially responsible for it. Worse…this ends up not being treated like a business because it’s not your primary business.

You don’t have to make a coworking space your ONLY business if you don’t want to, but I’d caution you from thinking that you can just pop up a space and run it on the side indefinitely.

2 - Be careful of letting yourself become a slave to an “idea” instead of focusing on how to best serve a community. There are two paths, only one leads to success in business:

  1. serve an idea
  2. serve a customer

Hint: your “idea” will keep asking to borrow money. :wink:

Your “idea” is going to change and morph over time no matter what you do, so locking into a specific idea now is setting yourself up for quite a bit of headache and heartache down the road.

This also comes down to what your goals are beyond how you divvy up space. Studio rental tends to become a fairly thankless and transactional business by comparison to a community space, UNLESS you have a plan for putting work to the community building work into things, like Angel has done with Cohere Bandwidth by embedding it into a bigger local community of arts and creativity. Making a studio a part of a bigger creative ecosystem, either locally or online, can help you create a MUCH more resilient model.

It also puts you in a position to know who the community that uses it is, and thus having a much better sense of how to structure your memberships to cover costs and even fund the opening in the first place.

Do you want to be in the business of renting space? Or do you want to be surrounded by creative people? They’re not exactly mutually exclusive, but the direction your personal priorities lean should color this decision.

-Alex

···

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Geoffrey Badner [email protected] wrote:

Alex & Katherine,
Thanks for your replies.

Option #2 “feels” better to me because that was my original idea. After looking for ways to fund the space (at NYC rents) the coworking space came into the picture. I’ve worked in several coworking spaces in NYC and always felt they were lacking in ways that I could improve on.

That issue aside, your comments echo those of others who have seen the space I’m considering. They seem to feel that, even with having the two spaces well separated and insulated for sound, having people shooting in the studio will disrupt the coworking space. Also, having people in the studio worry about annoying the people in the office areas would bring an an unappealing worry to the creative space.

I think I’ll probably end up with something similar to these membership-based shoot studios:

http://westststudios.com

http://studioslic.com (I’m currently a member here)

Just not confident I can afford to do this in the space I want.

Thanks!

~ Geoffrey

On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 12:58:03 PM UTC-4, Geoffrey Badner wrote:

Hello. First post here :slight_smile:

I’m a photographer from Brooklyn, NY and I’m interested in opening a shared creative space for others in the photo business – photographers, hair/makeup, stylists, etc. I’ve located an excellent 7,000 sq. ft space and have done a couple of layout plans that map back to two different business models.

1: Shared Desks + Studio

This idea cuts the space into 2/3rds hot desks, permanent desks and a couple of offices with 1/3 remaining for a single large studio space. This allows for daily drop ins, month to month desk and a couple closed office rentals and is designed to provide a steadier cash flow for the space while also providing a very nice shoot space.

2: Three Studios

This idea removes all of the desks and offices and uses almost the entire floor for three studio spaces (plus a nice common area with couches and a conference room). This is more what I feel like I want to do, but it relies completely on community members booking the studios regularly to support the community. To do this, I have to charge a higher monthly price point for even the lowest tier.

I’m wondering… is option 2 just too much of a niche? Option 1 seems like the smarter business decision, but I really like the concept of 2.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected].

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


The #1 mistake in community building is doing it by yourself.

Join the list: http://coworkingweekly.com

Listen to the podcast: http://dangerouslyawesome.com/podcast

Alex,
Thanks for all this. I’ve definitely already thought through many of the points you bring up and I think that I instinctively know that keeping the idea front and center is the right move.

.g

···

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 10:48:15 AM UTC-4, Alex Hillman wrote:

Option #2 “feels” better to me because that was my original idea.

That was my hunch :slight_smile:

Two warnings:

1 - Coworking as a way to subsidize the cost of a space you’d like to have but can’t afford, more often than not, ends up with you taking on even MORE space than you need and then being financially responsible for it. Worse…this ends up not being treated like a business because it’s not your primary business.

You don’t have to make a coworking space your ONLY business if you don’t want to, but I’d caution you from thinking that you can just pop up a space and run it on the side indefinitely.

2 - Be careful of letting yourself become a slave to an “idea” instead of focusing on how to best serve a community. There are two paths, only one leads to success in business:

  1. serve an idea
  2. serve a customer

Hint: your “idea” will keep asking to borrow money. :wink:

Your “idea” is going to change and morph over time no matter what you do, so locking into a specific idea now is setting yourself up for quite a bit of headache and heartache down the road.

This also comes down to what your goals are beyond how you divvy up space. Studio rental tends to become a fairly thankless and transactional business by comparison to a community space, UNLESS you have a plan for putting work to the community building work into things, like Angel has done with Cohere Bandwidth by embedding it into a bigger local community of arts and creativity. Making a studio a part of a bigger creative ecosystem, either locally or online, can help you create a MUCH more resilient model.

It also puts you in a position to know who the community that uses it is, and thus having a much better sense of how to structure your memberships to cover costs and even fund the opening in the first place.

Do you want to be in the business of renting space? Or do you want to be surrounded by creative people? They’re not exactly mutually exclusive, but the direction your personal priorities lean should color this decision.

-Alex


The #1 mistake in community building is doing it by yourself.

Join the list: http://coworkingweekly.com

Listen to the podcast: http://dangerouslyawesome.com/podcast

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Geoffrey Badner [email protected] wrote:

Alex & Katherine,
Thanks for your replies.

Option #2 “feels” better to me because that was my original idea. After looking for ways to fund the space (at NYC rents) the coworking space came into the picture. I’ve worked in several coworking spaces in NYC and always felt they were lacking in ways that I could improve on.

That issue aside, your comments echo those of others who have seen the space I’m considering. They seem to feel that, even with having the two spaces well separated and insulated for sound, having people shooting in the studio will disrupt the coworking space. Also, having people in the studio worry about annoying the people in the office areas would bring an an unappealing worry to the creative space.

I think I’ll probably end up with something similar to these membership-based shoot studios:

http://westststudios.com

http://studioslic.com (I’m currently a member here)

Just not confident I can afford to do this in the space I want.

Thanks!

~ Geoffrey

On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 12:58:03 PM UTC-4, Geoffrey Badner wrote:

Hello. First post here :slight_smile:

I’m a photographer from Brooklyn, NY and I’m interested in opening a shared creative space for others in the photo business – photographers, hair/makeup, stylists, etc. I’ve located an excellent 7,000 sq. ft space and have done a couple of layout plans that map back to two different business models.

1: Shared Desks + Studio

This idea cuts the space into 2/3rds hot desks, permanent desks and a couple of offices with 1/3 remaining for a single large studio space. This allows for daily drop ins, month to month desk and a couple closed office rentals and is designed to provide a steadier cash flow for the space while also providing a very nice shoot space.

2: Three Studios

This idea removes all of the desks and offices and uses almost the entire floor for three studio spaces (plus a nice common area with couches and a conference room). This is more what I feel like I want to do, but it relies completely on community members booking the studios regularly to support the community. To do this, I have to charge a higher monthly price point for even the lowest tier.

I’m wondering… is option 2 just too much of a niche? Option 1 seems like the smarter business decision, but I really like the concept of 2.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected].

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Keeping the idea front and center is the MISTAKE - keeping the CUSTOMER front and center is the right move. :slight_smile:

-Alex

···

On Wednesday, October 14, 2015, Geoffrey Badner [email protected] wrote:

Alex,
Thanks for all this. I’ve definitely already thought through many of the points you bring up and I think that I instinctively know that keeping the idea front and center is the right move.

.g

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 10:48:15 AM UTC-4, Alex Hillman wrote:

Option #2 “feels” better to me because that was my original idea.

That was my hunch :slight_smile:

Two warnings:

1 - Coworking as a way to subsidize the cost of a space you’d like to have but can’t afford, more often than not, ends up with you taking on even MORE space than you need and then being financially responsible for it. Worse…this ends up not being treated like a business because it’s not your primary business.

You don’t have to make a coworking space your ONLY business if you don’t want to, but I’d caution you from thinking that you can just pop up a space and run it on the side indefinitely.

2 - Be careful of letting yourself become a slave to an “idea” instead of focusing on how to best serve a community. There are two paths, only one leads to success in business:

  1. serve an idea
  2. serve a customer

Hint: your “idea” will keep asking to borrow money. :wink:

Your “idea” is going to change and morph over time no matter what you do, so locking into a specific idea now is setting yourself up for quite a bit of headache and heartache down the road.

This also comes down to what your goals are beyond how you divvy up space. Studio rental tends to become a fairly thankless and transactional business by comparison to a community space, UNLESS you have a plan for putting work to the community building work into things, like Angel has done with Cohere Bandwidth by embedding it into a bigger local community of arts and creativity. Making a studio a part of a bigger creative ecosystem, either locally or online, can help you create a MUCH more resilient model.

It also puts you in a position to know who the community that uses it is, and thus having a much better sense of how to structure your memberships to cover costs and even fund the opening in the first place.

Do you want to be in the business of renting space? Or do you want to be surrounded by creative people? They’re not exactly mutually exclusive, but the direction your personal priorities lean should color this decision.

-Alex


The #1 mistake in community building is doing it by yourself.

Join the list: http://coworkingweekly.com

Listen to the podcast: http://dangerouslyawesome.com/podcast

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Geoffrey Badner [email protected] wrote:

Alex & Katherine,
Thanks for your replies.

Option #2 “feels” better to me because that was my original idea. After looking for ways to fund the space (at NYC rents) the coworking space came into the picture. I’ve worked in several coworking spaces in NYC and always felt they were lacking in ways that I could improve on.

That issue aside, your comments echo those of others who have seen the space I’m considering. They seem to feel that, even with having the two spaces well separated and insulated for sound, having people shooting in the studio will disrupt the coworking space. Also, having people in the studio worry about annoying the people in the office areas would bring an an unappealing worry to the creative space.

I think I’ll probably end up with something similar to these membership-based shoot studios:

http://westststudios.com

http://studioslic.com (I’m currently a member here)

Just not confident I can afford to do this in the space I want.

Thanks!

~ Geoffrey

On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 12:58:03 PM UTC-4, Geoffrey Badner wrote:

Hello. First post here :slight_smile:

I’m a photographer from Brooklyn, NY and I’m interested in opening a shared creative space for others in the photo business – photographers, hair/makeup, stylists, etc. I’ve located an excellent 7,000 sq. ft space and have done a couple of layout plans that map back to two different business models.

1: Shared Desks + Studio

This idea cuts the space into 2/3rds hot desks, permanent desks and a couple of offices with 1/3 remaining for a single large studio space. This allows for daily drop ins, month to month desk and a couple closed office rentals and is designed to provide a steadier cash flow for the space while also providing a very nice shoot space.

2: Three Studios

This idea removes all of the desks and offices and uses almost the entire floor for three studio spaces (plus a nice common area with couches and a conference room). This is more what I feel like I want to do, but it relies completely on community members booking the studios regularly to support the community. To do this, I have to charge a higher monthly price point for even the lowest tier.

I’m wondering… is option 2 just too much of a niche? Option 1 seems like the smarter business decision, but I really like the concept of 2.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected].

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Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

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The #1 mistake in community building is doing it by yourself.

Join the list: http://coworkingweekly.com

Listen to the podcast: http://dangerouslyawesome.com/podcast

Sorry… that’s what I meant.

.g

···

On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 12:58:03 PM UTC-4, Geoffrey Badner wrote:

Hello. First post here :slight_smile:

I’m a photographer from Brooklyn, NY and I’m interested in opening a shared creative space for others in the photo business – photographers, hair/makeup, stylists, etc. I’ve located an excellent 7,000 sq. ft space and have done a couple of layout plans that map back to two different business models.

1: Shared Desks + Studio

This idea cuts the space into 2/3rds hot desks, permanent desks and a couple of offices with 1/3 remaining for a single large studio space. This allows for daily drop ins, month to month desk and a couple closed office rentals and is designed to provide a steadier cash flow for the space while also providing a very nice shoot space.

2: Three Studios

This idea removes all of the desks and offices and uses almost the entire floor for three studio spaces (plus a nice common area with couches and a conference room). This is more what I feel like I want to do, but it relies completely on community members booking the studios regularly to support the community. To do this, I have to charge a higher monthly price point for even the lowest tier.

I’m wondering… is option 2 just too much of a niche? Option 1 seems like the smarter business decision, but I really like the concept of 2.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Alex, I like the idea vs customer concept. I've lately been saying I can have big ideas but I get paid for rent with a great community.

I would back up what you said - coworking primarily as a way to make money, without a more community-focused/human-motivated why, does not work well from what I've seen.

Alex Linsker, Collective Agency in Portland Oregon

Option 2 rocks though