Getting rid of the "co-working" hyphen

I asked a professional editor friend of mine and this is what she had to say:

"I think usually the style guides follow the dictionary, and the dictionary is descriptive, not prescriptive. I just had Roma check Webster’s, and she says there’s no entry for “coworking,” just “coworker,”

What Webster might that be? The printed unabridged 3rd edition spells “co-worker”

… getting a dictionary entry will be easier than convincing AP. The style guides will follow."

Yes, that’s the way to go. Webster has an online form for new word proposals. But I think we should submit a file of inter-related words. Note the difference between “co-worker” and “coworker” is syntactical (used in sentences of different structure), not only semantical. The following is of course tentative, to be discussed. The examples should be replaced by real samples.

cowork (verb)

to work at a coworking space

“I cowork at ExampleCoworkingSpace”

co-worker (noun)

one who works with another : a fellow worker [sic]

“she’s a co-worker of mine at Apple”

coworker (noun)

person who attends a coworking space

“I’m a coworker at ExampleCoworkingSpace”

coworking (noun)

the act of independent professionals working in the same place and sharing resources

“coworking space”: a facility where coworking takes place

(What about “coworking community” and “coworking movement”? I had included that at first, but decided to leave it out. The concepts of community and movement in these phrases are the conventional ones, so the meaning is composed.)

···

On Tuesday, 16 September 2014 23:10:20 UTC+1, Aaron Cruikshank wrote:

Hi All,

Apologies in advance for being intentionally controversial, but this conversation about coworking with or without the hyphen nags at me and I figure I should say what I think about it even if I know it’s going to be unpopular (and even if I don’t really have a horse in the race).

I DON’T SEE WHY IT MATTERS HOW YOU SPELL COWORKING

First, I do spell coworking, “coworking” and I have a coworking space, and if anyone asks me about spelling for anything associated with my space, I spell it without a hyphen. All that said, I do NOT think this is an important issue… at all.

I think the issue that has been made of it–basically that “co-working” with a hyphen has a different meaning and that there’s value in disambiguating that confusion–is off base and not linguistically justified. And my completely data-lacking working hypothesis is that some part of the reason change hasn’t come on this issue is that the vast majority of people, including people running coworking spaces, agree, so they don’t get involved (but also don’t care, this perspective is neutral with respect to whether there should or shouldn’t be a hyphen).

WHY IS THE DEBATE ABOUT THE SPELLING OF COWORKING A RED HERRING?

First, even if coworking and co-coworking really were two distinct common words, it would be fine to spell them the same way. We know whether we are talking about co-working with people who work at the same company and coworking with people in a coworking space not because of the hyphen, but because of the context. The words are pronounced exactly the same and we need to be clear enough in communication to have the context distinguish so that we can have a reasonable conversation off paper. Even if we were primarily communicating only in written language, we’d always be confronted with people who didn’t know which spelling was which, and so coworking is always–in my experience–couched in a context that makes it clear that it refers to the activity we’re all intimately familiar with. If coworking were spelled co-working it would be one of the thousands of other words that have homonyms/homophones that don’t cause us trouble every day.

Second, language is adaptive and it adapts to the needs of its users. If the ability to communicate coworking would be meaningfully enhanced by removing the hyphen, that would likely happen over time organically, as it tends to do. But I don’t see how the ability to communicate the concept would be hampered in any way by using a hyphen instead of leaving in off.

Third, the hyphen is there in the first place for a reason. Coworking without the hyphen is more naturally read cow-orking, as many of us and many not on this list have observed. Cow is already a dominant word in the English language and our brains work in such a way that for most people not reading and thinking about coworking on a regular basis, that’s the reading that would come more naturally, especially as there is a word co-worker, that is semantically very closely related to our word, that has a hyphen. The hyphen there allows our brains to unambiguously read and pronounce that word as it ought to be read and pronounced, without wasting unnecessary tiny fractions of unconscious seconds thinking about how to read/pronounce/interpret the word. :slight_smile: This is the only one of my arguments against neutrality on the spelling, and it tends toward including the hyphen.

Fourth, and finally, co-working (describing working with people in the same company) and coworking (describing our industry), and the two terms derivative words, are not actually terms with high usage overlap. Search for “co-working” or “coworking” on Google, and it will refer to our industry almost 100% of the time. That’s because people don’t refer to the activity of working alongside co-workers in a company as “co-working”. They call it going to work.

Similar, people generally don’t need to refer to people who we work with in a coworking space as coworkers. That would be confusing. Because it’s just too much like the word that already exists that describes people you work with in the same company (co-workers). And a difference in a hyphen would just not solve that problem, since the words are pronounced identically and have very similar meaning, and so we’d need to use the context to differentiate anyway. Search for coworkers or co-workers on Google, and again, it will almost always refer to people who work together in a company, not people who work in a coworking space. The language usage of these words is non-overlapping enough that even if the first three points here were wrong, there’s no real issue with ambiguity.

That’s also why we don’t need to worry about it from a marketing/keyword point of view. If you use the keyword co-working or coworking, you don’t have to worry that someone searching on the Internet for something related to people who work together in a company will stumble upon you, because that’s just not the word anyone looking for that would use. Ditto, on the opposite side, for people searching for co-worker or coworker. You’d be foolish to use that as a keyword for your coworking space because anyone using that expression is looking for things related to the people they work with in a company.

Anyway, that’s my take on this issue. I love this community. I’m happy to spell it coworking because that’s the preferred spelling from people active in building this community from earlier on. But do I think it matters? Almost not at all. And to the extend I do think it matters, from a purely linguistic/communicative point of view, co-working, with a hyphen, would be the preferred spelling. I think it’s worth getting that counter-argument out there, since I think the main reason it’s not being made is that the people on this side of the issue don’t think it’s important enough, not because this side of the argument doesn’t have merit.

Will

···

On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 12:20:30 PM UTC+2, Marius Amado-Alves wrote:

On Tuesday, 16 September 2014 23:10:20 UTC+1, Aaron Cruikshank wrote:

I asked a professional editor friend of mine and this is what she had to say:

"I think usually the style guides follow the dictionary, and the dictionary is descriptive, not prescriptive. I just had Roma check Webster’s, and she says there’s no entry for “coworking,” just “coworker,”

What Webster might that be? The printed unabridged 3rd edition spells “co-worker”

… getting a dictionary entry will be easier than convincing AP. The style guides will follow."

Yes, that’s the way to go. Webster has an online form for new word proposals. But I think we should submit a file of inter-related words. Note the difference between “co-worker” and “coworker” is syntactical (used in sentences of different structure), not only semantical. The following is of course tentative, to be discussed. The examples should be replaced by real samples.

cowork (verb)

to work at a coworking space

“I cowork at ExampleCoworkingSpace”

co-worker (noun)

one who works with another : a fellow worker [sic]

“she’s a co-worker of mine at Apple”

coworker (noun)

person who attends a coworking space

“I’m a coworker at ExampleCoworkingSpace”

coworking (noun)

the act of independent professionals working in the same place and sharing resources

“coworking space”: a facility where coworking takes place

(What about “coworking community” and “coworking movement”? I had included that at first, but decided to leave it out. The concepts of community and movement in these phrases are the conventional ones, so the meaning is composed.)

FWIW, I agree with Will’s arguments except the “cow” one.

To summarize, the spelling is irrelevant, because there is only one coworking, irrespectively of how it is spelt. As Will points out, working with others in a company is never referred to as coworking.

Nevertheless, I think there is interest in diccionarizing the terms. (And then, while we’re at it, with the preferred spelling? It would be interesting to watch what happens to the guides.)

I would very much prefer coworking places to coworking spaces. Space is pictured by most people as outer space, empty space, emotionally cold and distant.

Place is a physical place, like a fireplace or a workplace or a marketplace or meet me at the place where...

When Collective Agency was around awhile, more than a few people said they'd "thought coworking spaces couldn't work in Portland, but we were the first place that did."

Alex

···

--
Alex Linsker
Collective Agency's Community Organizer / Proprietor
     (503) 517-6900 http://collectiveagency.co
Tax and Conversation's Statewide Community Organizer
     (503) 517-6904 taxandconversation.com
(503) 369-9174 mobile (503) 517-6901 fax
322 NW Sixth Ave, Suite 200, Portland, Oregon 97209

I am far more concerned that Apple likes to autocorrect coworking as cowering… :slight_smile:

···

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Marius Amado-Alves [email protected] wrote:

FWIW, I agree with Will’s arguments except the “cow” one.

To summarize, the spelling is irrelevant, because there is only one coworking, irrespectively of how it is spelt. As Will points out, working with others in a company is never referred to as coworking.

Nevertheless, I think there is interest in diccionarizing the terms. (And then, while we’re at it, with the preferred spelling? It would be interesting to watch what happens to the guides.)

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected].

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


Derek Neighbors

http://derekneighbors.com

Mobile: 480-335-9746

Connect With Me

Linked In : http://linkedin.com/in/dneighbors

Twitter : http://twitter.com/dneighbors

I’m with Marius on this one.

I think the important thing here is to get us in the dictionary with the spelling we use.

To me, the spelling issue has always been indicative of a bigger thing, which is official recognition as part of the English language.

After 10 years, I think the movement has earned it.

William, how would you feel if everyone started calling you Bill or Will-iam? What if the difference between Will-iam and William was just in written language and not in speech? You even stated that the reason you spell it coworking is out of respect for the rest of us that have all settled on coworking (you even prefer co-working!). That’s all we’re asking of journalists in this case. And if they’re denying our requests on the basis of being or not being in the dictionary, then let’s get in the dictionary.

Also Derek, the cowering autocorrect annoys me too! It never learns!

···

On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 12:47:01 PM UTC-5, Marius Amado-Alves wrote:

FWIW, I agree with Will’s arguments except the “cow” one.

To summarize, the spelling is irrelevant, because there is only one coworking, irrespectively of how it is spelt. As Will points out, working with others in a company is never referred to as coworking.

Nevertheless, I think there is interest in diccionarizing the terms. (And then, while we’re at it, with the preferred spelling? It would be interesting to watch what happens to the guides.)

Hi Oren,

I appreciate your reply about this!

Actually, my name is Will, not William, damnit!!! :))))

But I don’t think this is really the same.

First, “coworking” isn’t a company name or a given name / proper noun. It’s not your name or my name. It’s not even “the movement’s” name. If “personal computing” became just “computing,” what would you think if Apple or Microsoft or a handful of influential early players in the personal computing industry campaigned against the change and said that we can’t change “their” name, and that it was as though their given names were being mis-spelled? I’d personally think they should leave the English language alone and that it wasn’t the role of people in an industry to try to manage what have become common nouns in the English language. I have run a coworking space for more than 4 years now. I care what you call my space or what you call me and I care about coworking, but the idea that spelling coworking differently from how people who run coworking spaces think it should be spelled, or that misspelling is like misspelling a proper noun seems to me like a stretch.

Second, to the extent the name is owned by the community of coworking space owners, or at least we have a meaningful stake in it (which I think we do), then who are we? You write that after 10 years, the coworking movement has earned it and that the “rest of us have all settled on coworking.” But I don’t think that’s true. I see new coworking spaces all the time that put a hyphen in the term. As I wrote in the previous email, my (unsubstantiated) hypothesis is that there’s really a pretty small group of coworking space owners who care about coworking being spelled without a hyphen. I’ve never seen poll results and I doubt the question has even been put to a wide audience of coworking space owners (and presumably members). Even within the industry I’d guess the vast majority don’t care (if there were an option included in the poll), and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if an international poll of coworking space owners and members showed that the majority even thought the better spelling would be WITH a hyphen. Why wouldn’t you have heard that? The same reason I almost didn’t make the last post in the first place: “the other side” (the side that would prefer a hyphen or just doesn’t care), doesn’t have a horse in the race, because for that side language is organic and functional and they don’t see themselves as owning the name or as there being a meaningful difference in whether it’s spelled with or without a hyphen. (To be clear, I have no idea about “the other side” or what justifications might be; I’ve never seen any data on this; but it also wouldn’t surprise me). And the name coworking belongs to a much wider audience than just us coworking space owners by now, just as “personal computing belongs” to a much wider audience than Microsoft or Apple. And the Internet (or now internet) belongs to a much wider audience than the people who originally coined the name. That’s a sign of the maturity of the word, and something to be proud of as a movement. Not something to fight against.

Third, even if we were a coherent community who almost universally agreed that spelling it without a hyphen was superior, wouldn’t it be good to examine the counter-arguments? If, after we all gave it some thought, we agreed that it really didn’t matter and that we should let its spelling be determined organically, then wouldn’t we have saved each other a lot of time working to change something that was better left to grow on its own according to systems that my be wiser than we are about naming?

My few cents, anyway.

Will

···

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 9:30 AM, [email protected] [email protected] wrote:

I’m with Marius on this one.

I think the important thing here is to get us in the dictionary with the spelling we use.

To me, the spelling issue has always been indicative of a bigger thing, which is official recognition as part of the English language.

After 10 years, I think the movement has earned it.

William, how would you feel if everyone started calling you Bill or Will-iam? What if the difference between Will-iam and William was just in written language and not in speech? You even stated that the reason you spell it coworking is out of respect for the rest of us that have all settled on coworking (you even prefer co-working!). That’s all we’re asking of journalists in this case. And if they’re denying our requests on the basis of being or not being in the dictionary, then let’s get in the dictionary.

Also Derek, the cowering autocorrect annoys me too! It never learns!

On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 12:47:01 PM UTC-5, Marius Amado-Alves wrote:

FWIW, I agree with Will’s arguments except the “cow” one.

To summarize, the spelling is irrelevant, because there is only one coworking, irrespectively of how it is spelt. As Will points out, working with others in a company is never referred to as coworking.

Nevertheless, I think there is interest in diccionarizing the terms. (And then, while we’re at it, with the preferred spelling? It would be interesting to watch what happens to the guides.)

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/coworking/AyZVba1lISs/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to [email protected].

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


Will Bennis

Like Locus-Krakovska on Facebook
Like Locus-Slezska on Facebook

Follow Locus Workspace on Twitter

http://www.locusworkspace.cz

[email protected]

Mob: +420 732 501 105

YES! love this. Desk Union is in

···

On Thursday, 1 September 2011 10:29:20 UTC+1, [email protected] wrote:

Hi everyone,

For a while now we’ve been annoyed about the resurgence in the use of

the hyphenated version of the word coworking. As you all know, most

major media outlets these days write it as co-working.

Deskmag recently published an article explaining why this is

happening: it’s because the AP Stylebook has decided that co-working

is the correct form.

However, we’d like to ask for your assistance in helping AP change

their minds! We’ve put out a call for people to bombard AP with the

following tweet:

@APStylebook #Coworking is not Co-working. It’s an independent

movement that doesn’t want to be separated by a hyphen!

For a backgrounder on why we think the word should be without a

hyphen, have a read of the article: http://www.deskmag.com/en/coworking-or-co-working-with-hyphen-252

What do you all think? I know this is an old issue, but it’s important

to get the name right, right?

Sophie

Deskmag/Deskwanted

Hi Will,

I know what your name is, I was just trying to make a point. :slight_smile:

I respect and value your points about no horse in the race and that the indifference of the “co-working” fans would never lead them to debate this to such an extent and that clearly this is something the “coworking” fans are pushing here. I also see your point about the flexibility of language and I agree no entity can stop language from changing and adapting and being interpreted differently in different contexts.

All that being said, I find co-working to be disrespectful. There is a distinct difference between your example of “personal computing and computing” and “co-working and coworking”. One refers to a rapidly adapting industry where the nature of what was being described changed over time. While coworking is rapidly expanding and comes across new variants all the time, I don’t think anyone is claiming a full transformation is happening like in your computing example.

Nobody in journalism misspells kibbutz in writing and nobody just started calling them collective agricultural communities either. Kibbutz means something because it staked out the term and owned it. I see the exact same thing happening with coworking except that spelling it co-working means a distinct unfamiliarity with the subject matter.

Maybe I’m making some assumptions here, but this was one of the first things I learned about coworking. I don’t know a single major organization, association, product, content hub, group or otherwise large group of coworking people identifying under the “co-working” banner. We’re all squarely organized under the “coworking” banner. So what if some space operators choose to spell it co-working? Obviously that’s their choice as an operator and they’re welcome to do so, but to me it’s always been a red flag that they’re disconnected from the global community. Maybe I’m wrong in assuming so, but in my experience it’s been validated pretty consistently.

Even if there is little ambiguity in co-working vs. coworking (because there’s nothing currently called co-working), it’s still very undignified not be regarded as important enough to have a consistent spelling. That’s the core issue at hand from my perspective and maybe you disagree, but that’s why I think we’re talking about entering the dictionary and the style guides. It’s for the same reason that a apple is in appropriate but an apple is ok. If I said I’m going to eat a apple, you’d understand me but look at me funny. We’re just trying to get the journalists to realize that from our perspective, co-working = a apple.

···

On Friday, September 19, 2014 5:19:38 AM UTC-5, Will Bennis, Locus Workspace wrote:

Hi Oren,

I appreciate your reply about this!

Actually, my name is Will, not William, damnit!!! :))))

But I don’t think this is really the same.

First, “coworking” isn’t a company name or a given name / proper noun. It’s not your name or my name. It’s not even “the movement’s” name. If “personal computing” became just “computing,” what would you think if Apple or Microsoft or a handful of influential early players in the personal computing industry campaigned against the change and said that we can’t change “their” name, and that it was as though their given names were being mis-spelled? I’d personally think they should leave the English language alone and that it wasn’t the role of people in an industry to try to manage what have become common nouns in the English language. I have run a coworking space for more than 4 years now. I care what you call my space or what you call me and I care about coworking, but the idea that spelling coworking differently from how people who run coworking spaces think it should be spelled, or that misspelling is like misspelling a proper noun seems to me like a stretch.

Second, to the extent the name is owned by the community of coworking space owners, or at least we have a meaningful stake in it (which I think we do), then who are we? You write that after 10 years, the coworking movement has earned it and that the “rest of us have all settled on coworking.” But I don’t think that’s true. I see new coworking spaces all the time that put a hyphen in the term. As I wrote in the previous email, my (unsubstantiated) hypothesis is that there’s really a pretty small group of coworking space owners who care about coworking being spelled without a hyphen. I’ve never seen poll results and I doubt the question has even been put to a wide audience of coworking space owners (and presumably members). Even within the industry I’d guess the vast majority don’t care (if there were an option included in the poll), and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if an international poll of coworking space owners and members showed that the majority even thought the better spelling would be WITH a hyphen. Why wouldn’t you have heard that? The same reason I almost didn’t make the last post in the first place: “the other side” (the side that would prefer a hyphen or just doesn’t care), doesn’t have a horse in the race, because for that side language is organic and functional and they don’t see themselves as owning the name or as there being a meaningful difference in whether it’s spelled with or without a hyphen. (To be clear, I have no idea about “the other side” or what justifications might be; I’ve never seen any data on this; but it also wouldn’t surprise me). And the name coworking belongs to a much wider audience than just us coworking space owners by now, just as “personal computing belongs” to a much wider audience than Microsoft or Apple. And the Internet (or now internet) belongs to a much wider audience than the people who originally coined the name. That’s a sign of the maturity of the word, and something to be proud of as a movement. Not something to fight against.

Third, even if we were a coherent community who almost universally agreed that spelling it without a hyphen was superior, wouldn’t it be good to examine the counter-arguments? If, after we all gave it some thought, we agreed that it really didn’t matter and that we should let its spelling be determined organically, then wouldn’t we have saved each other a lot of time working to change something that was better left to grow on its own according to systems that my be wiser than we are about naming?

My few cents, anyway.

Will

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 9:30 AM, [email protected] [email protected] wrote:

I’m with Marius on this one.

I think the important thing here is to get us in the dictionary with the spelling we use.

To me, the spelling issue has always been indicative of a bigger thing, which is official recognition as part of the English language.

After 10 years, I think the movement has earned it.

William, how would you feel if everyone started calling you Bill or Will-iam? What if the difference between Will-iam and William was just in written language and not in speech? You even stated that the reason you spell it coworking is out of respect for the rest of us that have all settled on coworking (you even prefer co-working!). That’s all we’re asking of journalists in this case. And if they’re denying our requests on the basis of being or not being in the dictionary, then let’s get in the dictionary.

Also Derek, the cowering autocorrect annoys me too! It never learns!

On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 12:47:01 PM UTC-5, Marius Amado-Alves wrote:

FWIW, I agree with Will’s arguments except the “cow” one.

To summarize, the spelling is irrelevant, because there is only one coworking, irrespectively of how it is spelt. As Will points out, working with others in a company is never referred to as coworking.

Nevertheless, I think there is interest in diccionarizing the terms. (And then, while we’re at it, with the preferred spelling? It would be interesting to watch what happens to the guides.)

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/coworking/AyZVba1lISs/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to [email protected].

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


Will Bennis

Like Locus-Krakovska on Facebook
Like Locus-Slezska on Facebook

Follow Locus Workspace on Twitter

http://www.locusworkspace.cz

[email protected]

Mob: +420 732 501 105

Hi Oren,

I really appreciate your thoughtful reply about this. And it’s definitely pushed me in the direction of greater support for the “cause.” Two particular points that I can agree with: (1) the name is being spelled in two different ways for no very good reason. We might be able to solve that, and get it spelled in the way most people using the word want it to be spelled, so why not do it? (2) The way it’s spelled matters to a lot of people in ways that are not specifically about language clarity and are more about identity and community support. And for those people, the preferred spelling tends to be “coworking,” so why not respect that?

I’m in. I can respect that.

Best,

Will

···

On Saturday, September 20, 2014 9:41:49 PM UTC+2, [email protected] wrote:

Hi Will,

I know what your name is, I was just trying to make a point. :slight_smile:

I respect and value your points about no horse in the race and that the indifference of the “co-working” fans would never lead them to debate this to such an extent and that clearly this is something the “coworking” fans are pushing here. I also see your point about the flexibility of language and I agree no entity can stop language from changing and adapting and being interpreted differently in different contexts.

All that being said, I find co-working to be disrespectful. There is a distinct difference between your example of “personal computing and computing” and “co-working and coworking”. One refers to a rapidly adapting industry where the nature of what was being described changed over time. While coworking is rapidly expanding and comes across new variants all the time, I don’t think anyone is claiming a full transformation is happening like in your computing example.

Nobody in journalism misspells kibbutz in writing and nobody just started calling them collective agricultural communities either. Kibbutz means something because it staked out the term and owned it. I see the exact same thing happening with coworking except that spelling it co-working means a distinct unfamiliarity with the subject matter.

Maybe I’m making some assumptions here, but this was one of the first things I learned about coworking. I don’t know a single major organization, association, product, content hub, group or otherwise large group of coworking people identifying under the “co-working” banner. We’re all squarely organized under the “coworking” banner. So what if some space operators choose to spell it co-working? Obviously that’s their choice as an operator and they’re welcome to do so, but to me it’s always been a red flag that they’re disconnected from the global community. Maybe I’m wrong in assuming so, but in my experience it’s been validated pretty consistently.

Even if there is little ambiguity in co-working vs. coworking (because there’s nothing currently called co-working), it’s still very undignified not be regarded as important enough to have a consistent spelling. That’s the core issue at hand from my perspective and maybe you disagree, but that’s why I think we’re talking about entering the dictionary and the style guides. It’s for the same reason that a apple is in appropriate but an apple is ok. If I said I’m going to eat a apple, you’d understand me but look at me funny. We’re just trying to get the journalists to realize that from our perspective, co-working = a apple.

On Friday, September 19, 2014 5:19:38 AM UTC-5, Will Bennis, Locus Workspace wrote:

Hi Oren,

I appreciate your reply about this!

Actually, my name is Will, not William, damnit!!! :))))

But I don’t think this is really the same.

First, “coworking” isn’t a company name or a given name / proper noun. It’s not your name or my name. It’s not even “the movement’s” name. If “personal computing” became just “computing,” what would you think if Apple or Microsoft or a handful of influential early players in the personal computing industry campaigned against the change and said that we can’t change “their” name, and that it was as though their given names were being mis-spelled? I’d personally think they should leave the English language alone and that it wasn’t the role of people in an industry to try to manage what have become common nouns in the English language. I have run a coworking space for more than 4 years now. I care what you call my space or what you call me and I care about coworking, but the idea that spelling coworking differently from how people who run coworking spaces think it should be spelled, or that misspelling is like misspelling a proper noun seems to me like a stretch.

Second, to the extent the name is owned by the community of coworking space owners, or at least we have a meaningful stake in it (which I think we do), then who are we? You write that after 10 years, the coworking movement has earned it and that the “rest of us have all settled on coworking.” But I don’t think that’s true. I see new coworking spaces all the time that put a hyphen in the term. As I wrote in the previous email, my (unsubstantiated) hypothesis is that there’s really a pretty small group of coworking space owners who care about coworking being spelled without a hyphen. I’ve never seen poll results and I doubt the question has even been put to a wide audience of coworking space owners (and presumably members). Even within the industry I’d guess the vast majority don’t care (if there were an option included in the poll), and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if an international poll of coworking space owners and members showed that the majority even thought the better spelling would be WITH a hyphen. Why wouldn’t you have heard that? The same reason I almost didn’t make the last post in the first place: “the other side” (the side that would prefer a hyphen or just doesn’t care), doesn’t have a horse in the race, because for that side language is organic and functional and they don’t see themselves as owning the name or as there being a meaningful difference in whether it’s spelled with or without a hyphen. (To be clear, I have no idea about “the other side” or what justifications might be; I’ve never seen any data on this; but it also wouldn’t surprise me). And the name coworking belongs to a much wider audience than just us coworking space owners by now, just as “personal computing belongs” to a much wider audience than Microsoft or Apple. And the Internet (or now internet) belongs to a much wider audience than the people who originally coined the name. That’s a sign of the maturity of the word, and something to be proud of as a movement. Not something to fight against.

Third, even if we were a coherent community who almost universally agreed that spelling it without a hyphen was superior, wouldn’t it be good to examine the counter-arguments? If, after we all gave it some thought, we agreed that it really didn’t matter and that we should let its spelling be determined organically, then wouldn’t we have saved each other a lot of time working to change something that was better left to grow on its own according to systems that my be wiser than we are about naming?

My few cents, anyway.

Will

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 9:30 AM, [email protected] [email protected] wrote:

I’m with Marius on this one.

I think the important thing here is to get us in the dictionary with the spelling we use.

To me, the spelling issue has always been indicative of a bigger thing, which is official recognition as part of the English language.

After 10 years, I think the movement has earned it.

William, how would you feel if everyone started calling you Bill or Will-iam? What if the difference between Will-iam and William was just in written language and not in speech? You even stated that the reason you spell it coworking is out of respect for the rest of us that have all settled on coworking (you even prefer co-working!). That’s all we’re asking of journalists in this case. And if they’re denying our requests on the basis of being or not being in the dictionary, then let’s get in the dictionary.

Also Derek, the cowering autocorrect annoys me too! It never learns!

On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 12:47:01 PM UTC-5, Marius Amado-Alves wrote:

FWIW, I agree with Will’s arguments except the “cow” one.

To summarize, the spelling is irrelevant, because there is only one coworking, irrespectively of how it is spelt. As Will points out, working with others in a company is never referred to as coworking.

Nevertheless, I think there is interest in diccionarizing the terms. (And then, while we’re at it, with the preferred spelling? It would be interesting to watch what happens to the guides.)

Are there other approaches that could be used to standardize and legitimize the spelling? My first thought was registering “cowork” or “coworking” as a trademark/servicemark, but ownership issues seem to rule that out as an option. Is there a GPL equivalent that we could explore?

···

Glen Ferguson

Cowork Frederick

122 E Patrick St

Frederick, MD 21701-5630

+1 (301) 732-5165

www.coworkfrederick.com

@CoworkFrederick

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 11:50 AM, Will Bennis, Locus Workspace [email protected] wrote:

Hi Oren,

I really appreciate your thoughtful reply about this. And it’s definitely pushed me in the direction of greater support for the “cause.” Two particular points that I can agree with: (1) the name is being spelled in two different ways for no very good reason. We might be able to solve that, and get it spelled in the way most people using the word want it to be spelled, so why not do it? (2) The way it’s spelled matters to a lot of people in ways that are not specifically about language clarity and are more about identity and community support. And for those people, the preferred spelling tends to be “coworking,” so why not respect that?

I’m in. I can respect that.

Best,

Will

On Saturday, September 20, 2014 9:41:49 PM UTC+2, [email protected] wrote:

Hi Will,

I know what your name is, I was just trying to make a point. :slight_smile:

I respect and value your points about no horse in the race and that the indifference of the “co-working” fans would never lead them to debate this to such an extent and that clearly this is something the “coworking” fans are pushing here. I also see your point about the flexibility of language and I agree no entity can stop language from changing and adapting and being interpreted differently in different contexts.

All that being said, I find co-working to be disrespectful. There is a distinct difference between your example of “personal computing and computing” and “co-working and coworking”. One refers to a rapidly adapting industry where the nature of what was being described changed over time. While coworking is rapidly expanding and comes across new variants all the time, I don’t think anyone is claiming a full transformation is happening like in your computing example.

Nobody in journalism misspells kibbutz in writing and nobody just started calling them collective agricultural communities either. Kibbutz means something because it staked out the term and owned it. I see the exact same thing happening with coworking except that spelling it co-working means a distinct unfamiliarity with the subject matter.

Maybe I’m making some assumptions here, but this was one of the first things I learned about coworking. I don’t know a single major organization, association, product, content hub, group or otherwise large group of coworking people identifying under the “co-working” banner. We’re all squarely organized under the “coworking” banner. So what if some space operators choose to spell it co-working? Obviously that’s their choice as an operator and they’re welcome to do so, but to me it’s always been a red flag that they’re disconnected from the global community. Maybe I’m wrong in assuming so, but in my experience it’s been validated pretty consistently.

Even if there is little ambiguity in co-working vs. coworking (because there’s nothing currently called co-working), it’s still very undignified not be regarded as important enough to have a consistent spelling. That’s the core issue at hand from my perspective and maybe you disagree, but that’s why I think we’re talking about entering the dictionary and the style guides. It’s for the same reason that a apple is in appropriate but an apple is ok. If I said I’m going to eat a apple, you’d understand me but look at me funny. We’re just trying to get the journalists to realize that from our perspective, co-working = a apple.

On Friday, September 19, 2014 5:19:38 AM UTC-5, Will Bennis, Locus Workspace wrote:

Hi Oren,

I appreciate your reply about this!

Actually, my name is Will, not William, damnit!!! :))))

But I don’t think this is really the same.

First, “coworking” isn’t a company name or a given name / proper noun. It’s not your name or my name. It’s not even “the movement’s” name. If “personal computing” became just “computing,” what would you think if Apple or Microsoft or a handful of influential early players in the personal computing industry campaigned against the change and said that we can’t change “their” name, and that it was as though their given names were being mis-spelled? I’d personally think they should leave the English language alone and that it wasn’t the role of people in an industry to try to manage what have become common nouns in the English language. I have run a coworking space for more than 4 years now. I care what you call my space or what you call me and I care about coworking, but the idea that spelling coworking differently from how people who run coworking spaces think it should be spelled, or that misspelling is like misspelling a proper noun seems to me like a stretch.

Second, to the extent the name is owned by the community of coworking space owners, or at least we have a meaningful stake in it (which I think we do), then who are we? You write that after 10 years, the coworking movement has earned it and that the “rest of us have all settled on coworking.” But I don’t think that’s true. I see new coworking spaces all the time that put a hyphen in the term. As I wrote in the previous email, my (unsubstantiated) hypothesis is that there’s really a pretty small group of coworking space owners who care about coworking being spelled without a hyphen. I’ve never seen poll results and I doubt the question has even been put to a wide audience of coworking space owners (and presumably members). Even within the industry I’d guess the vast majority don’t care (if there were an option included in the poll), and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if an international poll of coworking space owners and members showed that the majority even thought the better spelling would be WITH a hyphen. Why wouldn’t you have heard that? The same reason I almost didn’t make the last post in the first place: “the other side” (the side that would prefer a hyphen or just doesn’t care), doesn’t have a horse in the race, because for that side language is organic and functional and they don’t see themselves as owning the name or as there being a meaningful difference in whether it’s spelled with or without a hyphen. (To be clear, I have no idea about “the other side” or what justifications might be; I’ve never seen any data on this; but it also wouldn’t surprise me). And the name coworking belongs to a much wider audience than just us coworking space owners by now, just as “personal computing belongs” to a much wider audience than Microsoft or Apple. And the Internet (or now internet) belongs to a much wider audience than the people who originally coined the name. That’s a sign of the maturity of the word, and something to be proud of as a movement. Not something to fight against.

Third, even if we were a coherent community who almost universally agreed that spelling it without a hyphen was superior, wouldn’t it be good to examine the counter-arguments? If, after we all gave it some thought, we agreed that it really didn’t matter and that we should let its spelling be determined organically, then wouldn’t we have saved each other a lot of time working to change something that was better left to grow on its own according to systems that my be wiser than we are about naming?

My few cents, anyway.

Will

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 9:30 AM, [email protected] [email protected] wrote:

I’m with Marius on this one.

I think the important thing here is to get us in the dictionary with the spelling we use.

To me, the spelling issue has always been indicative of a bigger thing, which is official recognition as part of the English language.

After 10 years, I think the movement has earned it.

William, how would you feel if everyone started calling you Bill or Will-iam? What if the difference between Will-iam and William was just in written language and not in speech? You even stated that the reason you spell it coworking is out of respect for the rest of us that have all settled on coworking (you even prefer co-working!). That’s all we’re asking of journalists in this case. And if they’re denying our requests on the basis of being or not being in the dictionary, then let’s get in the dictionary.

Also Derek, the cowering autocorrect annoys me too! It never learns!

On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 12:47:01 PM UTC-5, Marius Amado-Alves wrote:

FWIW, I agree with Will’s arguments except the “cow” one.

To summarize, the spelling is irrelevant, because there is only one coworking, irrespectively of how it is spelt. As Will points out, working with others in a company is never referred to as coworking.

Nevertheless, I think there is interest in diccionarizing the terms. (And then, while we’re at it, with the preferred spelling? It would be interesting to watch what happens to the guides.)

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected].

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Lots of great analogies in there, Oren. http://ihighfive.com/

-Alex

···

On Tuesday, Sep 23, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Will BennisLocus Workspace [email protected], wrote:

Hi Oren,

I really appreciate your thoughtful reply about this. And it’s definitely pushed me in the direction of greater support for the “cause.” Two particular points that I can agree with: (1) the name is being spelled in two different ways for no very good reason. We might be able to solve that, and get it spelled in the way most people using the word want it to be spelled, so why not do it? (2) The way it’s spelled matters to a lot of people in ways that are not specifically about language clarity and are more about identity and community support. And for those people, the preferred spelling tends to be “coworking,” so why not respect that?

I’m in. I can respect that.

Best,

Will

On Saturday, September 20, 2014 9:41:49 PM UTC+2, [email protected] wrote:

Hi Will,

I know what your name is, I was just trying to make a point. :slight_smile:

I respect and value your points about no horse in the race and that the indifference of the “co-working” fans would never lead them to debate this to such an extent and that clearly this is something the “coworking” fans are pushing here. I also see your point about the flexibility of language and I agree no entity can stop language from changing and adapting and being interpreted differently in different contexts.

All that being said, I find co-working to be disrespectful. There is a distinct difference between your example of “personal computing and computing” and “co-working and coworking”. One refers to a rapidly adapting industry where the nature of what was being described changed over time. While coworking is rapidly expanding and comes across new variants all the time, I don’t think anyone is claiming a full transformation is happening like in your computing example.

Nobody in journalism misspells kibbutz in writing and nobody just started calling them collective agricultural communities either. Kibbutz means something because it staked out the term and owned it. I see the exact same thing happening with coworking except that spelling it co-working means a distinct unfamiliarity with the subject matter.

Maybe I’m making some assumptions here, but this was one of the first things I learned about coworking. I don’t know a single major organization, association, product, content hub, group or otherwise large group of coworking people identifying under the “co-working” banner. We’re all squarely organized under the “coworking” banner. So what if some space operators choose to spell it co-working? Obviously that’s their choice as an operator and they’re welcome to do so, but to me it’s always been a red flag that they’re disconnected from the global community. Maybe I’m wrong in assuming so, but in my experience it’s been validated pretty consistently.

Even if there is little ambiguity in co-working vs. coworking (because there’s nothing currently called co-working), it’s still very undignified not be regarded as important enough to have a consistent spelling. That’s the core issue at hand from my perspective and maybe you disagree, but that’s why I think we’re talking about entering the dictionary and the style guides. It’s for the same reason that a apple is in appropriate but an apple is ok. If I said I’m going to eat a apple, you’d understand me but look at me funny. We’re just trying to get the journalists to realize that from our perspective, co-working = a apple.

On Friday, September 19, 2014 5:19:38 AM UTC-5, Will Bennis, Locus Workspace wrote:

Hi Oren,

I appreciate your reply about this!

Actually, my name is Will, not William, damnit!!! :))))

But I don’t think this is really the same.

First, “coworking” isn’t a company name or a given name / proper noun. It’s not your name or my name. It’s not even “the movement’s” name. If “personal computing” became just “computing,” what would you think if Apple or Microsoft or a handful of influential early players in the personal computing industry campaigned against the change and said that we can’t change “their” name, and that it was as though their given names were being mis-spelled? I’d personally think they should leave the English language alone and that it wasn’t the role of people in an industry to try to manage what have become common nouns in the English language. I have run a coworking space for more than 4 years now. I care what you call my space or what you call me and I care about coworking, but the idea that spelling coworking differently from how people who run coworking spaces think it should be spelled, or that misspelling is like misspelling a proper noun seems to me like a stretch.

Second, to the extent the name is owned by the community of coworking space owners, or at least we have a meaningful stake in it (which I think we do), then who are we? You write that after 10 years, the coworking movement has earned it and that the “rest of us have all settled on coworking.” But I don’t think that’s true. I see new coworking spaces all the time that put a hyphen in the term. As I wrote in the previous email, my (unsubstantiated) hypothesis is that there’s really a pretty small group of coworking space owners who care about coworking being spelled without a hyphen. I’ve never seen poll results and I doubt the question has even been put to a wide audience of coworking space owners (and presumably members). Even within the industry I’d guess the vast majority don’t care (if there were an option included in the poll), and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if an international poll of coworking space owners and members showed that the majority even thought the better spelling would be WITH a hyphen. Why wouldn’t you have heard that? The same reason I almost didn’t make the last post in the first place: “the other side” (the side that would prefer a hyphen or just doesn’t care), doesn’t have a horse in the race, because for that side language is organic and functional and they don’t see themselves as owning the name or as there being a meaningful difference in whether it’s spelled with or without a hyphen. (To be clear, I have no idea about “the other side” or what justifications might be; I’ve never seen any data on this; but it also wouldn’t surprise me). And the name coworking belongs to a much wider audience than just us coworking space owners by now, just as “personal computing belongs” to a much wider audience than Microsoft or Apple. And the Internet (or now internet) belongs to a much wider audience than the people who originally coined the name. That’s a sign of the maturity of the word, and something to be proud of as a movement. Not something to fight against.

Third, even if we were a coherent community who almost universally agreed that spelling it without a hyphen was superior, wouldn’t it be good to examine the counter-arguments? If, after we all gave it some thought, we agreed that it really didn’t matter and that we should let its spelling be determined organically, then wouldn’t we have saved each other a lot of time working to change something that was better left to grow on its own according to systems that my be wiser than we are about naming?

My few cents, anyway.

Will

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 9:30 AM, [email protected] [email protected] wrote:

I’m with Marius on this one.

I think the important thing here is to get us in the dictionary with the spelling we use.

To me, the spelling issue has always been indicative of a bigger thing, which is official recognition as part of the English language.

After 10 years, I think the movement has earned it.

William, how would you feel if everyone started calling you Bill or Will-iam? What if the difference between Will-iam and William was just in written language and not in speech? You even stated that the reason you spell it coworking is out of respect for the rest of us that have all settled on coworking (you even prefer co-working!). That’s all we’re asking of journalists in this case. And if they’re denying our requests on the basis of being or not being in the dictionary, then let’s get in the dictionary.

Also Derek, the cowering autocorrect annoys me too! It never learns!

On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 12:47:01 PM UTC-5, Marius Amado-Alves wrote:

FWIW, I agree with Will’s arguments except the “cow” one.

To summarize, the spelling is irrelevant, because there is only one coworking, irrespectively of how it is spelt. As Will points out, working with others in a company is never referred to as coworking.

Nevertheless, I think there is interest in diccionarizing the terms. (And then, while we’re at it, with the preferred spelling? It would be interesting to watch what happens to the guides.)

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected].

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

I was doing some digging and found it not so easy to contact the editors of the AP Style Guide directly without a content subscription, but I did find this: https://twitter.com/apstylebook

Does anyone want to join on a tweet campaign to get their attention #NoHyphenInCoworking anyone?

Also, found this: https://twitter.com/dhminthorn

Jacob, he seems to be a Washington state native, maybe you can reach out and invite him to Office Nomads to check out coworking?

···

On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 1:15:25 PM UTC-5, Alex Hillman wrote:

Lots of great analogies in there, Oren. http://ihighfive.com/

-Alex

On Tuesday, Sep 23, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Will BennisLocus Workspace [email protected], wrote:

Hi Oren,

I really appreciate your thoughtful reply about this. And it’s definitely pushed me in the direction of greater support for the “cause.” Two particular points that I can agree with: (1) the name is being spelled in two different ways for no very good reason. We might be able to solve that, and get it spelled in the way most people using the word want it to be spelled, so why not do it? (2) The way it’s spelled matters to a lot of people in ways that are not specifically about language clarity and are more about identity and community support. And for those people, the preferred spelling tends to be “coworking,” so why not respect that?

I’m in. I can respect that.

Best,

Will

On Saturday, September 20, 2014 9:41:49 PM UTC+2, [email protected] wrote:

Hi Will,

I know what your name is, I was just trying to make a point. :slight_smile:

I respect and value your points about no horse in the race and that the indifference of the “co-working” fans would never lead them to debate this to such an extent and that clearly this is something the “coworking” fans are pushing here. I also see your point about the flexibility of language and I agree no entity can stop language from changing and adapting and being interpreted differently in different contexts.

All that being said, I find co-working to be disrespectful. There is a distinct difference between your example of “personal computing and computing” and “co-working and coworking”. One refers to a rapidly adapting industry where the nature of what was being described changed over time. While coworking is rapidly expanding and comes across new variants all the time, I don’t think anyone is claiming a full transformation is happening like in your computing example.

Nobody in journalism misspells kibbutz in writing and nobody just started calling them collective agricultural communities either. Kibbutz means something because it staked out the term and owned it. I see the exact same thing happening with coworking except that spelling it co-working means a distinct unfamiliarity with the subject matter.

Maybe I’m making some assumptions here, but this was one of the first things I learned about coworking. I don’t know a single major organization, association, product, content hub, group or otherwise large group of coworking people identifying under the “co-working” banner. We’re all squarely organized under the “coworking” banner. So what if some space operators choose to spell it co-working? Obviously that’s their choice as an operator and they’re welcome to do so, but to me it’s always been a red flag that they’re disconnected from the global community. Maybe I’m wrong in assuming so, but in my experience it’s been validated pretty consistently.

Even if there is little ambiguity in co-working vs. coworking (because there’s nothing currently called co-working), it’s still very undignified not be regarded as important enough to have a consistent spelling. That’s the core issue at hand from my perspective and maybe you disagree, but that’s why I think we’re talking about entering the dictionary and the style guides. It’s for the same reason that a apple is in appropriate but an apple is ok. If I said I’m going to eat a apple, you’d understand me but look at me funny. We’re just trying to get the journalists to realize that from our perspective, co-working = a apple.

On Friday, September 19, 2014 5:19:38 AM UTC-5, Will Bennis, Locus Workspace wrote:

Hi Oren,

I appreciate your reply about this!

Actually, my name is Will, not William, damnit!!! :))))

But I don’t think this is really the same.

First, “coworking” isn’t a company name or a given name / proper noun. It’s not your name or my name. It’s not even “the movement’s” name. If “personal computing” became just “computing,” what would you think if Apple or Microsoft or a handful of influential early players in the personal computing industry campaigned against the change and said that we can’t change “their” name, and that it was as though their given names were being mis-spelled? I’d personally think they should leave the English language alone and that it wasn’t the role of people in an industry to try to manage what have become common nouns in the English language. I have run a coworking space for more than 4 years now. I care what you call my space or what you call me and I care about coworking, but the idea that spelling coworking differently from how people who run coworking spaces think it should be spelled, or that misspelling is like misspelling a proper noun seems to me like a stretch.

Second, to the extent the name is owned by the community of coworking space owners, or at least we have a meaningful stake in it (which I think we do), then who are we? You write that after 10 years, the coworking movement has earned it and that the “rest of us have all settled on coworking.” But I don’t think that’s true. I see new coworking spaces all the time that put a hyphen in the term. As I wrote in the previous email, my (unsubstantiated) hypothesis is that there’s really a pretty small group of coworking space owners who care about coworking being spelled without a hyphen. I’ve never seen poll results and I doubt the question has even been put to a wide audience of coworking space owners (and presumably members). Even within the industry I’d guess the vast majority don’t care (if there were an option included in the poll), and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if an international poll of coworking space owners and members showed that the majority even thought the better spelling would be WITH a hyphen. Why wouldn’t you have heard that? The same reason I almost didn’t make the last post in the first place: “the other side” (the side that would prefer a hyphen or just doesn’t care), doesn’t have a horse in the race, because for that side language is organic and functional and they don’t see themselves as owning the name or as there being a meaningful difference in whether it’s spelled with or without a hyphen. (To be clear, I have no idea about “the other side” or what justifications might be; I’ve never seen any data on this; but it also wouldn’t surprise me). And the name coworking belongs to a much wider audience than just us coworking space owners by now, just as “personal computing belongs” to a much wider audience than Microsoft or Apple. And the Internet (or now internet) belongs to a much wider audience than the people who originally coined the name. That’s a sign of the maturity of the word, and something to be proud of as a movement. Not something to fight against.

Third, even if we were a coherent community who almost universally agreed that spelling it without a hyphen was superior, wouldn’t it be good to examine the counter-arguments? If, after we all gave it some thought, we agreed that it really didn’t matter and that we should let its spelling be determined organically, then wouldn’t we have saved each other a lot of time working to change something that was better left to grow on its own according to systems that my be wiser than we are about naming?

My few cents, anyway.

Will

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 9:30 AM, [email protected] [email protected] wrote:

I’m with Marius on this one.

I think the important thing here is to get us in the dictionary with the spelling we use.

To me, the spelling issue has always been indicative of a bigger thing, which is official recognition as part of the English language.

After 10 years, I think the movement has earned it.

William, how would you feel if everyone started calling you Bill or Will-iam? What if the difference between Will-iam and William was just in written language and not in speech? You even stated that the reason you spell it coworking is out of respect for the rest of us that have all settled on coworking (you even prefer co-working!). That’s all we’re asking of journalists in this case. And if they’re denying our requests on the basis of being or not being in the dictionary, then let’s get in the dictionary.

Also Derek, the cowering autocorrect annoys me too! It never learns!

On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 12:47:01 PM UTC-5, Marius Amado-Alves wrote:

FWIW, I agree with Will’s arguments except the “cow” one.

To summarize, the spelling is irrelevant, because there is only one coworking, irrespectively of how it is spelt. As Will points out, working with others in a company is never referred to as coworking.

Nevertheless, I think there is interest in diccionarizing the terms. (And then, while we’re at it, with the preferred spelling? It would be interesting to watch what happens to the guides.)

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected].

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

And then there’s this by @APStylebook:

A pompom is an ornamental ball or tuft on clothing. Pom-pom is any of several rapid-firing automatic weapons. Hyphens matter. #APStyleChat

https://twitter.com/APStylebook/status/511555897517441024

scott.


SCOTT TILLITT

PR yogi + social entrepreneur + community catalyst + meditator

// [email protected] / 917.449.6356

// Facebook / Twitter / LinkedIn

BEAHIVE // collaborative spaces for work + community

sign up for******BEAHIVE BZZZ**

SOCIAL VENTURE INSTITUTE / HUDSON VALLEY // retreat for world-changing social entrepreneurs

RE>THINK LOCAL // co-creating a better Hudson Valley

ANTIDOTE COLLECTIVE // socially conscious communications for a better world

  • – - t h i n k / f e e l - – -

“…an idea or product that deserves the label ‘creative’ arises from the synergy of many sources and not only from the mind of a single person.” — Mihaly Csikszentmihaly

···

On Friday, September 26, 2014 8:19:01 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:

I was doing some digging and found it not so easy to contact the editors of the AP Style Guide directly without a content subscription, but I did find this: https://twitter.com/apstylebook

Does anyone want to join on a tweet campaign to get their attention #NoHyphenInCoworking anyone?

Also, found this: https://twitter.com/dhminthorn

Jacob, he seems to be a Washington state native, maybe you can reach out and invite him to Office Nomads to check out coworking?

On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 1:15:25 PM UTC-5, Alex Hillman wrote:

Lots of great analogies in there, Oren. http://ihighfive.com/

-Alex

On Tuesday, Sep 23, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Will BennisLocus Workspace [email protected], wrote:

Hi Oren,

I really appreciate your thoughtful reply about this. And it’s definitely pushed me in the direction of greater support for the “cause.” Two particular points that I can agree with: (1) the name is being spelled in two different ways for no very good reason. We might be able to solve that, and get it spelled in the way most people using the word want it to be spelled, so why not do it? (2) The way it’s spelled matters to a lot of people in ways that are not specifically about language clarity and are more about identity and community support. And for those people, the preferred spelling tends to be “coworking,” so why not respect that?

I’m in. I can respect that.

Best,

Will

On Saturday, September 20, 2014 9:41:49 PM UTC+2, [email protected] wrote:

Hi Will,

I know what your name is, I was just trying to make a point. :slight_smile:

I respect and value your points about no horse in the race and that the indifference of the “co-working” fans would never lead them to debate this to such an extent and that clearly this is something the “coworking” fans are pushing here. I also see your point about the flexibility of language and I agree no entity can stop language from changing and adapting and being interpreted differently in different contexts.

All that being said, I find co-working to be disrespectful. There is a distinct difference between your example of “personal computing and computing” and “co-working and coworking”. One refers to a rapidly adapting industry where the nature of what was being described changed over time. While coworking is rapidly expanding and comes across new variants all the time, I don’t think anyone is claiming a full transformation is happening like in your computing example.

Nobody in journalism misspells kibbutz in writing and nobody just started calling them collective agricultural communities either. Kibbutz means something because it staked out the term and owned it. I see the exact same thing happening with coworking except that spelling it co-working means a distinct unfamiliarity with the subject matter.

Maybe I’m making some assumptions here, but this was one of the first things I learned about coworking. I don’t know a single major organization, association, product, content hub, group or otherwise large group of coworking people identifying under the “co-working” banner. We’re all squarely organized under the “coworking” banner. So what if some space operators choose to spell it co-working? Obviously that’s their choice as an operator and they’re welcome to do so, but to me it’s always been a red flag that they’re disconnected from the global community. Maybe I’m wrong in assuming so, but in my experience it’s been validated pretty consistently.

Even if there is little ambiguity in co-working vs. coworking (because there’s nothing currently called co-working), it’s still very undignified not be regarded as important enough to have a consistent spelling. That’s the core issue at hand from my perspective and maybe you disagree, but that’s why I think we’re talking about entering the dictionary and the style guides. It’s for the same reason that a apple is in appropriate but an apple is ok. If I said I’m going to eat a apple, you’d understand me but look at me funny. We’re just trying to get the journalists to realize that from our perspective, co-working = a apple.

On Friday, September 19, 2014 5:19:38 AM UTC-5, Will Bennis, Locus Workspace wrote:

Hi Oren,

I appreciate your reply about this!

Actually, my name is Will, not William, damnit!!! :))))

But I don’t think this is really the same.

First, “coworking” isn’t a company name or a given name / proper noun. It’s not your name or my name. It’s not even “the movement’s” name. If “personal computing” became just “computing,” what would you think if Apple or Microsoft or a handful of influential early players in the personal computing industry campaigned against the change and said that we can’t change “their” name, and that it was as though their given names were being mis-spelled? I’d personally think they should leave the English language alone and that it wasn’t the role of people in an industry to try to manage what have become common nouns in the English language. I have run a coworking space for more than 4 years now. I care what you call my space or what you call me and I care about coworking, but the idea that spelling coworking differently from how people who run coworking spaces think it should be spelled, or that misspelling is like misspelling a proper noun seems to me like a stretch.

Second, to the extent the name is owned by the community of coworking space owners, or at least we have a meaningful stake in it (which I think we do), then who are we? You write that after 10 years, the coworking movement has earned it and that the “rest of us have all settled on coworking.” But I don’t think that’s true. I see new coworking spaces all the time that put a hyphen in the term. As I wrote in the previous email, my (unsubstantiated) hypothesis is that there’s really a pretty small group of coworking space owners who care about coworking being spelled without a hyphen. I’ve never seen poll results and I doubt the question has even been put to a wide audience of coworking space owners (and presumably members). Even within the industry I’d guess the vast majority don’t care (if there were an option included in the poll), and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if an international poll of coworking space owners and members showed that the majority even thought the better spelling would be WITH a hyphen. Why wouldn’t you have heard that? The same reason I almost didn’t make the last post in the first place: “the other side” (the side that would prefer a hyphen or just doesn’t care), doesn’t have a horse in the race, because for that side language is organic and functional and they don’t see themselves as owning the name or as there being a meaningful difference in whether it’s spelled with or without a hyphen. (To be clear, I have no idea about “the other side” or what justifications might be; I’ve never seen any data on this; but it also wouldn’t surprise me). And the name coworking belongs to a much wider audience than just us coworking space owners by now, just as “personal computing belongs” to a much wider audience than Microsoft or Apple. And the Internet (or now internet) belongs to a much wider audience than the people who originally coined the name. That’s a sign of the maturity of the word, and something to be proud of as a movement. Not something to fight against.

Third, even if we were a coherent community who almost universally agreed that spelling it without a hyphen was superior, wouldn’t it be good to examine the counter-arguments? If, after we all gave it some thought, we agreed that it really didn’t matter and that we should let its spelling be determined organically, then wouldn’t we have saved each other a lot of time working to change something that was better left to grow on its own according to systems that my be wiser than we are about naming?

My few cents, anyway.

Will

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 9:30 AM, [email protected] [email protected] wrote:

I’m with Marius on this one.

I think the important thing here is to get us in the dictionary with the spelling we use.

To me, the spelling issue has always been indicative of a bigger thing, which is official recognition as part of the English language.

After 10 years, I think the movement has earned it.

William, how would you feel if everyone started calling you Bill or Will-iam? What if the difference between Will-iam and William was just in written language and not in speech? You even stated that the reason you spell it coworking is out of respect for the rest of us that have all settled on coworking (you even prefer co-working!). That’s all we’re asking of journalists in this case. And if they’re denying our requests on the basis of being or not being in the dictionary, then let’s get in the dictionary.

Also Derek, the cowering autocorrect annoys me too! It never learns!

On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 12:47:01 PM UTC-5, Marius Amado-Alves wrote:

FWIW, I agree with Will’s arguments except the “cow” one.

To summarize, the spelling is irrelevant, because there is only one coworking, irrespectively of how it is spelt. As Will points out, working with others in a company is never referred to as coworking.

Nevertheless, I think there is interest in diccionarizing the terms. (And then, while we’re at it, with the preferred spelling? It would be interesting to watch what happens to the guides.)

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected].

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

I’ll reach out to him and see if he is close enough to stop in for coffee.

Also, if it would help the cause, Open Coworking can buy a subscription. But a subscription without the leg work isn’t worth much. Lauren and Oren, you two seem to have a good momentum on this. Go team!

···

Jacob


Office Nomads - Individuality without Isolation
http://www.officenomads.com - (206) 323-6500

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 5:19 PM, [email protected] [email protected] wrote:

I was doing some digging and found it not so easy to contact the editors of the AP Style Guide directly without a content subscription, but I did find this: https://twitter.com/apstylebook

Does anyone want to join on a tweet campaign to get their attention #NoHyphenInCoworking anyone?

Also, found this: https://twitter.com/dhminthorn

Jacob, he seems to be a Washington state native, maybe you can reach out and invite him to Office Nomads to check out coworking?

On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 1:15:25 PM UTC-5, Alex Hillman wrote:

Lots of great analogies in there, Oren. http://ihighfive.com/

-Alex

On Tuesday, Sep 23, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Will BennisLocus Workspace [email protected], wrote:

Hi Oren,

I really appreciate your thoughtful reply about this. And it’s definitely pushed me in the direction of greater support for the “cause.” Two particular points that I can agree with: (1) the name is being spelled in two different ways for no very good reason. We might be able to solve that, and get it spelled in the way most people using the word want it to be spelled, so why not do it? (2) The way it’s spelled matters to a lot of people in ways that are not specifically about language clarity and are more about identity and community support. And for those people, the preferred spelling tends to be “coworking,” so why not respect that?

I’m in. I can respect that.

Best,

Will

On Saturday, September 20, 2014 9:41:49 PM UTC+2, [email protected] wrote:

Hi Will,

I know what your name is, I was just trying to make a point. :slight_smile:

I respect and value your points about no horse in the race and that the indifference of the “co-working” fans would never lead them to debate this to such an extent and that clearly this is something the “coworking” fans are pushing here. I also see your point about the flexibility of language and I agree no entity can stop language from changing and adapting and being interpreted differently in different contexts.

All that being said, I find co-working to be disrespectful. There is a distinct difference between your example of “personal computing and computing” and “co-working and coworking”. One refers to a rapidly adapting industry where the nature of what was being described changed over time. While coworking is rapidly expanding and comes across new variants all the time, I don’t think anyone is claiming a full transformation is happening like in your computing example.

Nobody in journalism misspells kibbutz in writing and nobody just started calling them collective agricultural communities either. Kibbutz means something because it staked out the term and owned it. I see the exact same thing happening with coworking except that spelling it co-working means a distinct unfamiliarity with the subject matter.

Maybe I’m making some assumptions here, but this was one of the first things I learned about coworking. I don’t know a single major organization, association, product, content hub, group or otherwise large group of coworking people identifying under the “co-working” banner. We’re all squarely organized under the “coworking” banner. So what if some space operators choose to spell it co-working? Obviously that’s their choice as an operator and they’re welcome to do so, but to me it’s always been a red flag that they’re disconnected from the global community. Maybe I’m wrong in assuming so, but in my experience it’s been validated pretty consistently.

Even if there is little ambiguity in co-working vs. coworking (because there’s nothing currently called co-working), it’s still very undignified not be regarded as important enough to have a consistent spelling. That’s the core issue at hand from my perspective and maybe you disagree, but that’s why I think we’re talking about entering the dictionary and the style guides. It’s for the same reason that a apple is in appropriate but an apple is ok. If I said I’m going to eat a apple, you’d understand me but look at me funny. We’re just trying to get the journalists to realize that from our perspective, co-working = a apple.

On Friday, September 19, 2014 5:19:38 AM UTC-5, Will Bennis, Locus Workspace wrote:

Hi Oren,

I appreciate your reply about this!

Actually, my name is Will, not William, damnit!!! :))))

But I don’t think this is really the same.

First, “coworking” isn’t a company name or a given name / proper noun. It’s not your name or my name. It’s not even “the movement’s” name. If “personal computing” became just “computing,” what would you think if Apple or Microsoft or a handful of influential early players in the personal computing industry campaigned against the change and said that we can’t change “their” name, and that it was as though their given names were being mis-spelled? I’d personally think they should leave the English language alone and that it wasn’t the role of people in an industry to try to manage what have become common nouns in the English language. I have run a coworking space for more than 4 years now. I care what you call my space or what you call me and I care about coworking, but the idea that spelling coworking differently from how people who run coworking spaces think it should be spelled, or that misspelling is like misspelling a proper noun seems to me like a stretch.

Second, to the extent the name is owned by the community of coworking space owners, or at least we have a meaningful stake in it (which I think we do), then who are we? You write that after 10 years, the coworking movement has earned it and that the “rest of us have all settled on coworking.” But I don’t think that’s true. I see new coworking spaces all the time that put a hyphen in the term. As I wrote in the previous email, my (unsubstantiated) hypothesis is that there’s really a pretty small group of coworking space owners who care about coworking being spelled without a hyphen. I’ve never seen poll results and I doubt the question has even been put to a wide audience of coworking space owners (and presumably members). Even within the industry I’d guess the vast majority don’t care (if there were an option included in the poll), and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if an international poll of coworking space owners and members showed that the majority even thought the better spelling would be WITH a hyphen. Why wouldn’t you have heard that? The same reason I almost didn’t make the last post in the first place: “the other side” (the side that would prefer a hyphen or just doesn’t care), doesn’t have a horse in the race, because for that side language is organic and functional and they don’t see themselves as owning the name or as there being a meaningful difference in whether it’s spelled with or without a hyphen. (To be clear, I have no idea about “the other side” or what justifications might be; I’ve never seen any data on this; but it also wouldn’t surprise me). And the name coworking belongs to a much wider audience than just us coworking space owners by now, just as “personal computing belongs” to a much wider audience than Microsoft or Apple. And the Internet (or now internet) belongs to a much wider audience than the people who originally coined the name. That’s a sign of the maturity of the word, and something to be proud of as a movement. Not something to fight against.

Third, even if we were a coherent community who almost universally agreed that spelling it without a hyphen was superior, wouldn’t it be good to examine the counter-arguments? If, after we all gave it some thought, we agreed that it really didn’t matter and that we should let its spelling be determined organically, then wouldn’t we have saved each other a lot of time working to change something that was better left to grow on its own according to systems that my be wiser than we are about naming?

My few cents, anyway.

Will

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 9:30 AM, [email protected] [email protected] wrote:

I’m with Marius on this one.

I think the important thing here is to get us in the dictionary with the spelling we use.

To me, the spelling issue has always been indicative of a bigger thing, which is official recognition as part of the English language.

After 10 years, I think the movement has earned it.

William, how would you feel if everyone started calling you Bill or Will-iam? What if the difference between Will-iam and William was just in written language and not in speech? You even stated that the reason you spell it coworking is out of respect for the rest of us that have all settled on coworking (you even prefer co-working!). That’s all we’re asking of journalists in this case. And if they’re denying our requests on the basis of being or not being in the dictionary, then let’s get in the dictionary.

Also Derek, the cowering autocorrect annoys me too! It never learns!

On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 12:47:01 PM UTC-5, Marius Amado-Alves wrote:

FWIW, I agree with Will’s arguments except the “cow” one.

To summarize, the spelling is irrelevant, because there is only one coworking, irrespectively of how it is spelt. As Will points out, working with others in a company is never referred to as coworking.

Nevertheless, I think there is interest in diccionarizing the terms. (And then, while we’re at it, with the preferred spelling? It would be interesting to watch what happens to the guides.)

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected].

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected].

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Hello everyone-

A friend (and fellow member at my neighborhood coworking space) just forwarded me this blog. It made me laugh and also made me think of how far we have to go! If we can have words like this joy emoji listed by Oxford as the word of the year, it’s got to be easy for us to get coworking into the dictionary! </end rant>

Also, happy summer (for our northern-hemisphere friends) from sunny Santa Cruz, California.

Iris

···

On Thursday, September 1, 2011 at 2:29:20 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:

Hi everyone,

For a while now we’ve been annoyed about the resurgence in the use of

the hyphenated version of the word coworking. As you all know, most

major media outlets these days write it as co-working.

Deskmag recently published an article explaining why this is

happening: it’s because the AP Stylebook has decided that co-working

is the correct form.

However, we’d like to ask for your assistance in helping AP change

their minds! We’ve put out a call for people to bombard AP with the

following tweet:

@APStylebook #Coworking is not Co-working. It’s an independent

movement that doesn’t want to be separated by a hyphen!

For a backgrounder on why we think the word should be without a

hyphen, have a read of the article: http://www.deskmag.com/en/coworking-or-co-working-with-hyphen-252

What do you all think? I know this is an old issue, but it’s important

to get the name right, right?

Sophie

Deskmag/Deskwanted

Yes ! loved this discussion.