I am about to enter a commercial lease for premises to start a Co
Working Studio called Epic Studios. I know the land lord will be
adverse to me sub leasing though & want to avoid having to sub lease
to co workers. How do I get around that legally? Someone mentioned
creating a membership. Does this mean people still enter into an
agreement when they move in?
If anyone has any formal information on the wording of a Membership +
Agreement around this, that would be much appreciated.
It’s to the landlord’s benefit to agree to filling his/her place. Ours let sub-leasing for the purpose of office business activities and we agreed to be on the premises. (our company is a tenant of our space) We also have our members agree to terms similar to the landlords regarding use of space, damages, etc. We went from 1100 s/f to needing 2400 s/f is one year- the landlord is quite pleased!
Chad
···
On 2011-01-15, at 8:51 PM, Paulie wrote:
Hello,
I am about to enter a commercial lease for premises to start a Co
Working Studio called Epic Studios. I know the land lord will be
adverse to me sub leasing though & want to avoid having to sub lease
to co workers. How do I get around that legally? Someone mentioned
creating a membership. Does this mean people still enter into an
agreement when they move in?
If anyone has any formal information on the wording of a Membership +
Agreement around this, that would be much appreciated.
Congratulations! You must be so excited to be at this stage of your
venture. I am a commercial real estate broker in Charlotte, NC, who
works on behalf of Tenants, so my advice is coming from the real
estate side, not necessarily the co-working side.
Does the Landlord know that your use is to create a co-working space?
I'd encourage you to make that clear up front to avoid any conflicts
or misunderstandings in the future.
I would also encourage you to have an attorney who specializes in
commercial leases review the document on your behalf. Ask around for
recommendations if you do not already have someone you trust. The
Landlord has likely provided you a document drafted by their
attorney's to protect their interests. While the lease provides you
with protections, it is most probably unbalanced. Investing in a good
attorney who specializes in commercial real estate will be worth every
penny to you should an issue arise in the future. Additionally, your
attorney will be able to make sure that the sublease/assignment
language does not prevent you from operating the business you intend.
Good luck! Let me know if I can be of any additional help.
Jen Ware - Alliance Commercial Real Estate
Charlotte, North Carolina
I am about to enter a commercial lease for premises to start a Co
Working Studio called Epic Studios. I know the land lord will be
adverse to me sub leasing though & want to avoid having to sub lease
to co workers. How do I get around that legally? Someone mentioned
creating a membership. Does this mean people still enter into an
agreement when they move in?
If anyone has any formal information on the wording of a Membership +
Agreement around this, that would be much appreciated.
I can't speak to the particulars of Australian law, but as both
Australia and the US legal systems find their roots in British common
law, there's probably enough similarities that I can help get you
started down the right track (though my primary gig is business
services, I'm a licensed attorney here in the US ).
Typically, a sub-lease arrangement carries the legal implication of
affording the sub-lessee with certain property rights. This is why
most standard lease arrangements disallow it or wrap certain terms and
conditions around it.
I agree with one of the posters below that your intended business
model should be clearly communicated to the landlord. You can still
provide services to others through a straight contractual arrangement
known as a license. You want to make clear that you are not granting
the user any property rights... merely a license to use your services
based upon the terms and conditions you set forth in your license.
Legally, this is a more limited right and should satisfy any concerns
your landlord (and his/her lenders) may otherwise have.
As somebody noted below, you should really run this by a local
attorney... they will be best equipped to provide you with the right
solution.
I am about to enter a commercial lease for premises to start a Co
Working Studio called Epic Studios. I know the land lord will be
adverse to me sub leasing though & want to avoid having to sub lease
to co workers. How do I get around that legally? Someone mentioned
creating a membership. Does this mean people still enter into an
agreement when they move in?
If anyone has any formal information on the wording of a Membership +
Agreement around this, that would be much appreciated.
I purposefully avoided a sublease situation at our space. I sell
memberships not subleases. We still have a membership agreement and
all of our memberships are month to month so there's no long term
contract implications when a person buys a membership.
I can't speak to the particulars of Australian law, but as both
Australia and the US legal systems find their roots in British common
law, there's probably enough similarities that I can help get you
started down the right track (though my primary gig is business
services, I'm a licensed attorney here in the US ).
Typically, a sub-lease arrangement carries the legal implication of
affording the sub-lessee with certain property rights. This is why
most standard lease arrangements disallow it or wrap certain terms and
conditions around it.
I agree with one of the posters below that your intended business
model should be clearly communicated to the landlord. You can still
provide services to others through a straight contractual arrangement
known as a license. You want to make clear that you are not granting
the user any property rights... merely a license to use your services
based upon the terms and conditions you set forth in your license.
Legally, this is a more limited right and should satisfy any concerns
your landlord (and his/her lenders) may otherwise have.
As somebody noted below, you should really run this by a local
attorney... they will be best equipped to provide you with the right
solution.
Good luck!
Jack Speranza
Founder, the zen bungalowhttp://zenbungalow.com
> I am about to enter a commercial lease for premises to start a Co
> Working Studio called Epic Studios. I know the land lord will be
> adverse to me sub leasing though & want to avoid having to sub lease
> to co workers. How do I get around that legally? Someone mentioned
> creating a membership. Does this mean people still enter into an
> agreement when they move in?
> If anyone has any formal information on the wording of a Membership +
> Agreement around this, that would be much appreciated.
Our landlord required us to avoid any sublease language, and our members are instead required to sign “space licenses” to our space. It’s a part of our membership agreement and it’s all pretty simple. I’m not sure if that same language translates exactly (in legalese, that is) to different countries, but if you’d like to take a look at it I’m happy to share it with you - just drop me a message directly.
Our landlord required us to avoid any sublease language, and our members are
instead required to sign "space licenses" to our space. It's a part of our
membership agreement and it's all pretty simple. I'm not sure if that same
language translates exactly (in legalese, that is) to different countries,
but if you'd like to take a look at it I'm happy to share it with you - just
drop me a message directly.
Best of luck!
Susan
__
Office Nomads
officenomads.com
206-484-5859
On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 5:51 PM, Paulie <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello,
> I am about to enter a commercial lease for premises to start a Co
> Working Studio called Epic Studios. I know the land lord will be
> adverse to me sub leasing though & want to avoid having to sub lease
> to co workers. How do I get around that legally? Someone mentioned
> creating a membership. Does this mean people still enter into an
> agreement when they move in?
> If anyone has any formal information on the wording of a Membership +
> Agreement around this, that would be much appreciated.
> Thanks again.
> Paul - Epic Studios
> Melbourne - Australia
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Coworking" group.
> To post to this group, send email to cowo...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> [email protected]<coworking%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com>
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
>http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en\.
FYI, all exec suites (Regus & co.) and most coworking use "memberships". This is probably the most common way to ensure that the "members" have no property rights over the space, despite whatever "dedicated" status we assign to an office or desk. Landlords do not want to deal with a whole bunch of mini-tenants - they complicate liability, responsibility, etc.
Jerome
···
______________
BLANKSPACES
"work FOR yourself, not BY yourself"
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea)
Los Angeles, CA 90036
323.330.9505 (office)
On Jan 21, 2011, at 10:24 AM, Anne wrote:
We at pariSoma do "memberships" as well and only do formal sublease
contracts for international businesses who need such an agreement for
Visas.
Our landlord required us to avoid any sublease language, and our members are
instead required to sign "space licenses" to our space. It's a part of our
membership agreement and it's all pretty simple. I'm not sure if that same
language translates exactly (in legalese, that is) to different countries,
but if you'd like to take a look at it I'm happy to share it with you - just
drop me a message directly.
Best of luck!
Susan
__
Office Nomads
officenomads.com
206-484-5859
I am about to enter a commercial lease for premises to start a Co
Working Studio called Epic Studios. I know the land lord will be
adverse to me sub leasing though & want to avoid having to sub lease
to co workers. How do I get around that legally? Someone mentioned
creating a membership. Does this mean people still enter into an
agreement when they move in?
If anyone has any formal information on the wording of a Membership +
Agreement around this, that would be much appreciated.
Thanks again.
Paul - Epic Studios
Melbourne - Australia
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Coworking" group.
To post to this group, send email to cowo...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]<coworking%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com>
.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en\.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group.
To post to this group, send email to cowo...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to coworking+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en\.
We are using a license arrangement for the members that need something
formalized for visa or other purposes. It seems to satisfy the
officials enough and avoids the sub-lease wording.
Jon
@jonbuford
boot.hk
···
On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 2:27 AM, Jerome Chang <[email protected]> wrote:
FYI, all exec suites (Regus & co.) and most coworking use "memberships". This is probably the most common way to ensure that the "members" have no property rights over the space, despite whatever "dedicated" status we assign to an office or desk. Landlords do not want to deal with a whole bunch of mini-tenants - they complicate liability, responsibility, etc.
Jerome
______________
BLANKSPACES
"work FOR yourself, not BY yourself"
www.blankspaces.com
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea)
Los Angeles, CA 90036
323.330.9505 (office)
On Jan 21, 2011, at 10:24 AM, Anne wrote:
We at pariSoma do "memberships" as well and only do formal sublease
contracts for international businesses who need such an agreement for
Visas.
Our landlord required us to avoid any sublease language, and our members are
instead required to sign "space licenses" to our space. It's a part of our
membership agreement and it's all pretty simple. I'm not sure if that same
language translates exactly (in legalese, that is) to different countries,
but if you'd like to take a look at it I'm happy to share it with you - just
drop me a message directly.
Best of luck!
Susan
__
Office Nomads
officenomads.com
206-484-5859
I am about to enter a commercial lease for premises to start a Co
Working Studio called Epic Studios. I know the land lord will be
adverse to me sub leasing though & want to avoid having to sub lease
to co workers. How do I get around that legally? Someone mentioned
creating a membership. Does this mean people still enter into an
agreement when they move in?
If anyone has any formal information on the wording of a Membership +
Agreement around this, that would be much appreciated.
Thanks again.
Paul - Epic Studios
Melbourne - Australia
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Coworking" group.
To post to this group, send email to cowo...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]<coworking%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com>
.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en\.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group.
To post to this group, send email to cowo...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to coworking+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en\.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group.
To post to this group, send email to cowo...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to coworking+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en\.
At our coworking project we crafted a membership agreement, with the guidance of a real estate attorney, that was derived from a hotel service agreement. This approach afforded us much more authority (though only once exercised) to terminate agreements with members when warranted without getting tripped up by real estate renter and lessor rights.
Mark Gilbreath
CEO/Founder
208.720.8107
ma...@liquidspaceapp.com
LiquidSpace(TM) - find a better space to work.
We're a location-based mobile application that lets you use your phone to find a better space to meet and work, book it, check in securely, and share it with your colleagues. Visit www.liquidspaceapp.com to learn more!
···
On Jan 25, 2011, at 11:21 PM, Jonathan Buford <[email protected]> wrote:
We are using a license arrangement for the members that need something
formalized for visa or other purposes. It seems to satisfy the
officials enough and avoids the sub-lease wording.
Jon
@jonbuford
boot.hk
On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 2:27 AM, Jerome Chang <[email protected]> wrote:
FYI, all exec suites (Regus & co.) and most coworking use "memberships". This is probably the most common way to ensure that the "members" have no property rights over the space, despite whatever "dedicated" status we assign to an office or desk. Landlords do not want to deal with a whole bunch of mini-tenants - they complicate liability, responsibility, etc.
Jerome
______________
BLANKSPACES
"work FOR yourself, not BY yourself"
www.blankspaces.com
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea)
Los Angeles, CA 90036
323.330.9505 (office)
On Jan 21, 2011, at 10:24 AM, Anne wrote:
We at pariSoma do "memberships" as well and only do formal sublease
contracts for international businesses who need such an agreement for
Visas.
Our landlord required us to avoid any sublease language, and our members are
instead required to sign "space licenses" to our space. It's a part of our
membership agreement and it's all pretty simple. I'm not sure if that same
language translates exactly (in legalese, that is) to different countries,
but if you'd like to take a look at it I'm happy to share it with you - just
drop me a message directly.
Best of luck!
Susan
__
Office Nomads
officenomads.com
206-484-5859
I am about to enter a commercial lease for premises to start a Co
Working Studio called Epic Studios. I know the land lord will be
adverse to me sub leasing though & want to avoid having to sub lease
to co workers. How do I get around that legally? Someone mentioned
creating a membership. Does this mean people still enter into an
agreement when they move in?
If anyone has any formal information on the wording of a Membership +
Agreement around this, that would be much appreciated.
Thanks again.
Paul - Epic Studios
Melbourne - Australia
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Coworking" group.
To post to this group, send email to cowo...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]<coworking%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com>
.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en\.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group.
To post to this group, send email to cowo...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to coworking+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en\.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group.
To post to this group, send email to cowo...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to coworking+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en\.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group.
To post to this group, send email to cowo...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to coworking+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en\.
Would love to get any precedent documents to patch together a sub-lease
agreement (sic for co-working tenants).
All offers gratefully received at jo...@startnest.com.
Thanks!
Jono
On Sunday, January 16, 2011 12:51:35 PM UTC+11, Paulie wrote:
Hello,
I am about to enter a commercial lease for premises to start a Co
Working Studio called Epic Studios. I know the land lord will be
adverse to me sub leasing though & want to avoid having to sub lease
to co workers. How do I get around that legally? Someone mentioned
creating a membership. Does this mean people still enter into an
agreement when they move in?
If anyone has any formal information on the wording of a Membership +
Agreement around this, that would be much appreciated.
Thanks again.
Paul - Epic Studios
Melbourne - Australia
--
Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Coworking" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to coworking+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out\.
A while ago we wrote a blog post about membership agreement vs leases - includes a model of membership agreement too. Feel free to check, share and ask.
On Friday, March 22, 2013 9:14:18 AM UTC+1, Peter Dowell wrote:
Best way bind your tenants is via a Licence agreement on a monthly basis
I use this for serviced offices & my co-working environment & it seems to work
pretty well
good luck
On Sunday, January 16, 2011 2:51:35 PM UTC+13, Paulie wrote:
Hello,
I am about to enter a commercial lease for premises to start a Co
Working Studio called Epic Studios. I know the land lord will be
adverse to me sub leasing though & want to avoid having to sub lease
to co workers. How do I get around that legally? Someone mentioned
creating a membership. Does this mean people still enter into an
agreement when they move in?
If anyone has any formal information on the wording of a Membership +
Agreement around this, that would be much appreciated.
Hi Susan!
I am in the same stage and would really love to get a look at your membership agreement. I’m debating on subleasing vs memberships so this would help me greatly!
On Thursday, January 20, 2011 at 2:34:47 PM UTC-5, Susan Evans wrote:
Hi Paul,
Our landlord required us to avoid any sublease language, and our members are instead required to sign “space licenses” to our space. It’s a part of our membership agreement and it’s all pretty simple. I’m not sure if that same language translates exactly (in legalese, that is) to different countries, but if you’d like to take a look at it I’m happy to share it with you - just drop me a message directly.
Hi Susan!
I am in the same stage and would really love to get a look at your membership agreement. I’m debating on subleasing vs memberships so this would help me greatly!
On Thursday, January 20, 2011 at 2:34:47 PM UTC-5, Susan Evans wrote:
Hi Paul,
Our landlord required us to avoid any sublease language, and our members are instead required to sign “space licenses” to our space. It’s a part of our membership agreement and it’s all pretty simple. I’m not sure if that same language translates exactly (in legalese, that is) to different countries, but if you’d like to take a look at it I’m happy to share it with you - just drop me a message directly.
As Kevin Penstock mentioned (thanks, Kevin), LiquidSpace has a free open-source legal agreement you can use directly with your members (or it’s the default for bookings on LiquidSpace.com). https://liquidspace.com/terms/dash-license
Email me directly if you want to connect on why Landlords prefer a License agreement (membership) vs. Sublicense (tenant) relationship. The basics are it’s easier to manage a single tenant, and it provides more legal protection to the landlord as members vs. sub-tenants have less legal rights to the space (Disclaimer… I’m not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.).
But we have spent plenty of time/money with our lawyers, our landlord partners, and with Fortune 500 legal teams to know it’s a well vetted legal agreement. Download it for free here (https://liquidspace.com/terms/dash-license), or email me at ([email protected]) about using it online.
Cheers,
Eric Zellhart
Product Manager, LiquidSpace
···
On Friday, August 4, 2017 at 8:53:22 AM UTC-7, Kevin Penstock wrote:
Hi Susan!
I am in the same stage and would really love to get a look at your membership agreement. I’m debating on subleasing vs memberships so this would help me greatly!
On Thursday, January 20, 2011 at 2:34:47 PM UTC-5, Susan Evans wrote:
Hi Paul,
Our landlord required us to avoid any sublease language, and our members are instead required to sign “space licenses” to our space. It’s a part of our membership agreement and it’s all pretty simple. I’m not sure if that same language translates exactly (in legalese, that is) to different countries, but if you’d like to take a look at it I’m happy to share it with you - just drop me a message directly.
I would encourage you to define the contractual relationship with your members based upon a license model NOT a lease/sub-lease. The right that you then will want included in your lease with the landlord will be the right to sub-license. I’ve attached a copy of our DASH License agreement (as used in the LiquidSpace platform) that you can use as a reference example.
Happy to chat with you directly on the subtler details of all of this. Good luck!
