After hours liability

Good afternoon,
I am new to the group and looking for some advise on security. My husband and I have shared an office for the last three years, he has an architecture firm and I do art consulting/brokerage. We are doubling our office size and will have 8 extra large work stations plus conference and gallery space as well as casual breakout ares and a work room, so we have decided to offer a small number of co-working memberships.

The one thing we are struggling with most is security, both for our members and our business belongings, we both have some pricey computers and I often have some valuable artwork in the space. We would like to offer access to the space during hours outside of normal business hours to higher level members but haven’t figured out a way to secure our computers etc since the area our employees work in is shared with the area we plan to use for co-working.

Has anyone out there dealt with similar conditions and what was your solution? If no solution, does it seem to restrictive to only offer access 8-6?

Also, should we have an attorney look at our contract to make sure we are not liable for actions of others in the space or to and from the street parking they will be using.

Thanks for your time and advise.

Lock down each desktop w/ one of those cable and lock things. We did this back at the GSD studios.
Then password protect each computer even when idle for 10 min.

Add cameras to monitor off-hours.

Yes, have some legal wording to waive liability.
JEROME CHANG

Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036
ph: (323) 330-9505

Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013
ph: (213) 550-2235




···

On Jul 12, 2014, at 5:07 PM, Rachel Cline [email protected] wrote:

Good afternoon,
I am new to the group and looking for some advise on security. My husband and I have shared an office for the last three years, he has an architecture firm and I do art consulting/brokerage. We are doubling our office size and will have 8 extra large work stations plus conference and gallery space as well as casual breakout ares and a work room, so we have decided to offer a small number of co-working memberships.

The one thing we are struggling with most is security, both for our members and our business belongings, we both have some pricey computers and I often have some valuable artwork in the space. We would like to offer access to the space during hours outside of normal business hours to higher level members but haven’t figured out a way to secure our computers etc since the area our employees work in is shared with the area we plan to use for co-working.

Has anyone out there dealt with similar conditions and what was your solution? If no solution, does it seem to restrictive to only offer access 8-6?

Also, should we have an attorney look at our contract to make sure we are not liable for actions of others in the space or to and from the street parking they will be using.

Thanks for your time and advise.

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

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Dropcam is easy to deploy and relatively cheap video monitoring.

···

On Monday, July 14, 2014 9:37:29 PM UTC-5, Jerome wrote:

Lock down each desktop w/ one of those cable and lock things. We did this back at the GSD studios.
Then password protect each computer even when idle for 10 min.

Add cameras to monitor off-hours.

Yes, have some legal wording to waive liability.
JEROME CHANG

Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036
ph: (323) 330-9505

Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013
ph: (213) 550-2235





On Jul 12, 2014, at 5:07 PM, Rachel Cline [email protected] wrote:

Good afternoon,
I am new to the group and looking for some advise on security. My husband and I have shared an office for the last three years, he has an architecture firm and I do art consulting/brokerage. We are doubling our office size and will have 8 extra large work stations plus conference and gallery space as well as casual breakout ares and a work room, so we have decided to offer a small number of co-working memberships.

The one thing we are struggling with most is security, both for our members and our business belongings, we both have some pricey computers and I often have some valuable artwork in the space. We would like to offer access to the space during hours outside of normal business hours to higher level members but haven’t figured out a way to secure our computers etc since the area our employees work in is shared with the area we plan to use for co-working.

Has anyone out there dealt with similar conditions and what was your solution? If no solution, does it seem to restrictive to only offer access 8-6?

Also, should we have an attorney look at our contract to make sure we are not liable for actions of others in the space or to and from the street parking they will be using.

Thanks for your time and advise.

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected].

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Rachel,

For a bit of context: we have 50+ full time members’ computers/belongings, our own electronics/equipment, and a substantial art collection on loan at any given time…so I’ve felt many aspects of your pain.

Bolting things down is definitely an option, but man, does it send a message of “I don’t trust you”. This is a pretty toxic message for community members to experience, and leads to all kinds of other issues (far beyond security) that are totally avoidable simply by being intentional about trust.

We’re not naive about this, either. We’ve had a theft - and it came from within, from a new full time member. He was quickly caught red handed and removed. Equipment is replaceable. But a lot of trust that had been established among members was rocked to the core.

We had a conversation with our members about the theft. The belongings that went missing sucked, but the BIG issue that we had to deal with was a major breach of trust. When everyone looks at every new member suspiciously, again, that’s not a place that people want to be.

Cameras just tell you “whodunit” after the fact. What if you could reduce the odds of a situation before a camera ever has anything worth capturing?

We came up with another method: we have a 30 day waiting period on getting 24/7 access, and once that 30 day period is over, you need to get signatures from 3 other key holding members on a sheet that says “I’ve gotten to know and trust this person enough that I’m okay with them having keys around my and other peoples’ stuff.”

This sends a very different message to both new and existing members: first, new members get the feeling of “woah, it’s not just the staff or owners of this place that look out for things…it’s everyone, including my peers”. It also serves as a reminder to existing keyholders, that they’re responsible for more than just themselves.

Kinda like a neighborhood watch, which even the police will tell you they benefit from. It’s just not possible or practical to have presence everywhere, and even when you can, it’s rarely a way to manage risk that people WANT to have.

Think about how you feel going into a gas station where the attendant is behind bullet proof glass, vs. going to your local corner store to pick something up. You feel different in places that are on lockdown. Frankly, you want to GTFO. I have direct quotes from other coworking spaces, too: “We never totally took security as serious as how our members might feel within the space.”

We put this process in place 6 years ago, and have nothing but positive feedback about it from all sides (and have remained incident free). IN fact, things are generally FAR better taken care of because of it.

And unlike the last time this was brought up on the list (3+ years ago!), Indy Hall now includes a ground floor entrance AND is a two-floor layout, making the “neighborhood watch” model even more valuable for keeping eyes on the “streets” on both floors simultaneously.

-Alex

···

/ah

indyhall.org
coworking in philadelphia

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Jerome Chang [email protected] wrote:

Lock down each desktop w/ one of those cable and lock things. We did this back at the GSD studios.
Then password protect each computer even when idle for 10 min.

Add cameras to monitor off-hours.

Yes, have some legal wording to waive liability.
JEROME CHANG

Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036
ph: (323) 330-9505

Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013

ph: (213) 550-2235





On Jul 12, 2014, at 5:07 PM, Rachel Cline [email protected] wrote:

Good afternoon,
I am new to the group and looking for some advise on security. My husband and I have shared an office for the last three years, he has an architecture firm and I do art consulting/brokerage. We are doubling our office size and will have 8 extra large work stations plus conference and gallery space as well as casual breakout ares and a work room, so we have decided to offer a small number of co-working memberships.

The one thing we are struggling with most is security, both for our members and our business belongings, we both have some pricey computers and I often have some valuable artwork in the space. We would like to offer access to the space during hours outside of normal business hours to higher level members but haven’t figured out a way to secure our computers etc since the area our employees work in is shared with the area we plan to use for co-working.

Has anyone out there dealt with similar conditions and what was your solution? If no solution, does it seem to restrictive to only offer access 8-6?

Also, should we have an attorney look at our contract to make sure we are not liable for actions of others in the space or to and from the street parking they will be using.

Thanks for your time and advise.

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected].

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

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And in case you don’t believe me about the sense of responsibility that you can engender using our key/access approach:

Tonight we had a MAJOR storm come through Philly. So bad that the building next to ours caused water to leak into our space. In this case, our “intruder” was mother nature. No security cameras or lockdowns would’ve helped (in fact, anything locked down would’ve been damaged).

However, one of our members was there, called a couple of other members he knew could get ahold of staff. He carefully moved a couple of members’ belongings out of harms way of the water. There’s a bit of a mess, but nobody’s stuff got hurt.

Here’s the kicker: nearly all happened while I was on an airplane between LA and SFO. By the time I landed, just about everything we could’ve done for the night was resolved, including sending a note to the community about what had happened (including a heads up to the people whose stuff had to be moved).

The best part, though, is that when thanking the members for helping mitigate the damage, the very first thing George - who had spotted the water first and started calling people - said was,

*“Hey man, I’m a keyholder”. *

-Alex

···

/ah
indyhall.org

coworking in philadelphia

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Alex Hillman [email protected] wrote:

Rachel,

For a bit of context: we have 50+ full time members’ computers/belongings, our own electronics/equipment, and a substantial art collection on loan at any given time…so I’ve felt many aspects of your pain.

Bolting things down is definitely an option, but man, does it send a message of “I don’t trust you”. This is a pretty toxic message for community members to experience, and leads to all kinds of other issues (far beyond security) that are totally avoidable simply by being intentional about trust.

We’re not naive about this, either. We’ve had a theft - and it came from within, from a new full time member. He was quickly caught red handed and removed. Equipment is replaceable. But a lot of trust that had been established among members was rocked to the core.

We had a conversation with our members about the theft. The belongings that went missing sucked, but the BIG issue that we had to deal with was a major breach of trust. When everyone looks at every new member suspiciously, again, that’s not a place that people want to be.

Cameras just tell you “whodunit” after the fact. What if you could reduce the odds of a situation before a camera ever has anything worth capturing?

We came up with another method: we have a 30 day waiting period on getting 24/7 access, and once that 30 day period is over, you need to get signatures from 3 other key holding members on a sheet that says “I’ve gotten to know and trust this person enough that I’m okay with them having keys around my and other peoples’ stuff.”

This sends a very different message to both new and existing members: first, new members get the feeling of “woah, it’s not just the staff or owners of this place that look out for things…it’s everyone, including my peers”. It also serves as a reminder to existing keyholders, that they’re responsible for more than just themselves.

Kinda like a neighborhood watch, which even the police will tell you they benefit from. It’s just not possible or practical to have presence everywhere, and even when you can, it’s rarely a way to manage risk that people WANT to have.

Think about how you feel going into a gas station where the attendant is behind bullet proof glass, vs. going to your local corner store to pick something up. You feel different in places that are on lockdown. Frankly, you want to GTFO. I have direct quotes from other coworking spaces, too: “We never totally took security as serious as how our members might feel within the space.”

We put this process in place 6 years ago, and have nothing but positive feedback about it from all sides (and have remained incident free). IN fact, things are generally FAR better taken care of because of it.

And unlike the last time this was brought up on the list (3+ years ago!), Indy Hall now includes a ground floor entrance AND is a two-floor layout, making the “neighborhood watch” model even more valuable for keeping eyes on the “streets” on both floors simultaneously.

-Alex

/ah

indyhall.org
coworking in philadelphia

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Jerome Chang [email protected] wrote:

Lock down each desktop w/ one of those cable and lock things. We did this back at the GSD studios.
Then password protect each computer even when idle for 10 min.

Add cameras to monitor off-hours.

Yes, have some legal wording to waive liability.
JEROME CHANG

Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036
ph: (323) 330-9505

Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013

ph: (213) 550-2235





On Jul 12, 2014, at 5:07 PM, Rachel Cline [email protected] wrote:

Good afternoon,
I am new to the group and looking for some advise on security. My husband and I have shared an office for the last three years, he has an architecture firm and I do art consulting/brokerage. We are doubling our office size and will have 8 extra large work stations plus conference and gallery space as well as casual breakout ares and a work room, so we have decided to offer a small number of co-working memberships.

The one thing we are struggling with most is security, both for our members and our business belongings, we both have some pricey computers and I often have some valuable artwork in the space. We would like to offer access to the space during hours outside of normal business hours to higher level members but haven’t figured out a way to secure our computers etc since the area our employees work in is shared with the area we plan to use for co-working.

Has anyone out there dealt with similar conditions and what was your solution? If no solution, does it seem to restrictive to only offer access 8-6?

Also, should we have an attorney look at our contract to make sure we are not liable for actions of others in the space or to and from the street parking they will be using.

Thanks for your time and advise.

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected].

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

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Awesome. You’ve got a great policy in place.

My advice was a knee-jerk comment based on being a fellow architect. My bad.

I guess my only revision to both Alex’s and my advice is that since Rachel’s coworking office is being added on to an existing/original office team, it might not be managed with a front desk/community manager or similar.

Alex, I take it that your GroupBuzz forum came in really handy in this case, huh?
JEROME CHANG

Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036
ph: (323) 330-9505

Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013
ph: (213) 550-2235




···

/ah
indyhall.org

coworking in philadelphia

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Alex Hillman [email protected] wrote:

Rachel,

For a bit of context: we have 50+ full time members’ computers/belongings, our own electronics/equipment, and a substantial art collection on loan at any given time…so I’ve felt many aspects of your pain.

Bolting things down is definitely an option, but man, does it send a message of “I don’t trust you”. This is a pretty toxic message for community members to experience, and leads to all kinds of other issues (far beyond security) that are totally avoidable simply by being intentional about trust.

We’re not naive about this, either. We’ve had a theft - and it came from within, from a new full time member. He was quickly caught red handed and removed. Equipment is replaceable. But a lot of trust that had been established among members was rocked to the core.

We had a conversation with our members about the theft. The belongings that went missing sucked, but the BIG issue that we had to deal with was a major breach of trust. When everyone looks at every new member suspiciously, again, that’s not a place that people want to be.

Cameras just tell you “whodunit” after the fact. What if you could reduce the odds of a situation before a camera ever has anything worth capturing?

We came up with another method: we have a 30 day waiting period on getting 24/7 access, and once that 30 day period is over, you need to get signatures from 3 other key holding members on a sheet that says “I’ve gotten to know and trust this person enough that I’m okay with them having keys around my and other peoples’ stuff.”

This sends a very different message to both new and existing members: first, new members get the feeling of “woah, it’s not just the staff or owners of this place that look out for things…it’s everyone, including my peers”. It also serves as a reminder to existing keyholders, that they’re responsible for more than just themselves.

Kinda like a neighborhood watch, which even the police will tell you they benefit from. It’s just not possible or practical to have presence everywhere, and even when you can, it’s rarely a way to manage risk that people WANT to have.

Think about how you feel going into a gas station where the attendant is behind bullet proof glass, vs. going to your local corner store to pick something up. You feel different in places that are on lockdown. Frankly, you want to GTFO. I have direct quotes from other coworking spaces, too: “We never totally took security as serious as how our members might feel within the space.”

We put this process in place 6 years ago, and have nothing but positive feedback about it from all sides (and have remained incident free). IN fact, things are generally FAR better taken care of because of it.

And unlike the last time this was brought up on the list (3+ years ago!), Indy Hall now includes a ground floor entrance AND is a two-floor layout, making the “neighborhood watch” model even more valuable for keeping eyes on the “streets” on both floors simultaneously.

-Alex

/ah

indyhall.org
coworking in philadelphia

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Jerome Chang [email protected] wrote:

Lock down each desktop w/ one of those cable and lock things. We did this back at the GSD studios.
Then password protect each computer even when idle for 10 min.

Add cameras to monitor off-hours.

Yes, have some legal wording to waive liability.
JEROME CHANG

Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036
ph: (323) 330-9505

Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013

ph: (213) 550-2235


<yelp-s.png>
<twitter-bird3-square.png><facebook-logo-square.png><linkedin-logo-square2.png><vimeo-s.png>



On Jul 12, 2014, at 5:07 PM, Rachel Cline [email protected] wrote:

Good afternoon,
I am new to the group and looking for some advise on security. My husband and I have shared an office for the last three years, he has an architecture firm and I do art consulting/brokerage. We are doubling our office size and will have 8 extra large work stations plus conference and gallery space as well as casual breakout ares and a work room, so we have decided to offer a small number of co-working memberships.

The one thing we are struggling with most is security, both for our members and our business belongings, we both have some pricey computers and I often have some valuable artwork in the space. We would like to offer access to the space during hours outside of normal business hours to higher level members but haven’t figured out a way to secure our computers etc since the area our employees work in is shared with the area we plan to use for co-working.

Has anyone out there dealt with similar conditions and what was your solution? If no solution, does it seem to restrictive to only offer access 8-6?

Also, should we have an attorney look at our contract to make sure we are not liable for actions of others in the space or to and from the street parking they will be using.

Thanks for your time and advise.

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected].

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

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it might not be managed with a front desk/community manager or similar.

All the more reason to want something where your non-agency coworking members to be looking out for things :slight_smile:

Alex, I take it that your GroupBuzz forum came in really handy in this case, huh?

That’s…a really good question - I don’t actually think it did, at least not directly. list.

Like I said in my other thread about GroupBuzz, it’s less of an “add-on backchannel” and a more of a community gather place unto itself. Those lines are definitely blurry, as stuff about the space is among the topics that gets discussed online.

But this time, it was the coworking space that was leaking, not GroupBuzz :wink:

If history repeats itself, my bet is that if George couldn’t have gotten ahold of anyone, he would’ve posted something though.

Now, if GroupBuzz did play a role, it might’ve been explicit, like helping George look up contact info for someone who he thought could help, or a bit more implicit, like the fact that George’s participation in GroupBuzz reinforces that sense of “looking after things” because it does come up in conversations quite a bit.

Either way, I’m definitely guessing. I will have to check with the crew who was involved tomorrow to find out for sure.

The only active role that I KNOW GroupBuzz played this time was communicating what happened and publicly acknowledging the folks who helped.

-Alex

···

/ah
indyhall.org

coworking in philadelphia

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 12:39 AM, Jerome Chang [email protected] wrote:

Awesome. You’ve got a great policy in place.

My advice was a knee-jerk comment based on being a fellow architect. My bad.

I guess my only revision to both Alex’s and my advice is that since Rachel’s coworking office is being added on to an existing/original office team, it might not be managed with a front desk/community manager or similar.

Alex, I take it that your GroupBuzz forum came in really handy in this case, huh?

JEROME CHANG

Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036
ph: (323) 330-9505

Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013

ph: (213) 550-2235




On Jul 14, 2014, at 9:21 PM, Alex Hillman [email protected] wrote:

And in case you don’t believe me about the sense of responsibility that you can engender using our key/access approach:

Tonight we had a MAJOR storm come through Philly. So bad that the building next to ours caused water to leak into our space. In this case, our “intruder” was mother nature. No security cameras or lockdowns would’ve helped (in fact, anything locked down would’ve been damaged).

However, one of our members was there, called a couple of other members he knew could get ahold of staff. He carefully moved a couple of members’ belongings out of harms way of the water. There’s a bit of a mess, but nobody’s stuff got hurt.

Here’s the kicker: nearly all happened while I was on an airplane between LA and SFO. By the time I landed, just about everything we could’ve done for the night was resolved, including sending a note to the community about what had happened (including a heads up to the people whose stuff had to be moved).

The best part, though, is that when thanking the members for helping mitigate the damage, the very first thing George - who had spotted the water first and started calling people - said was,

*“Hey man, I’m a keyholder”. *

-Alex

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected].

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

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/ah
indyhall.org

coworking in philadelphia

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Alex Hillman [email protected] wrote:

Rachel,

For a bit of context: we have 50+ full time members’ computers/belongings, our own electronics/equipment, and a substantial art collection on loan at any given time…so I’ve felt many aspects of your pain.

Bolting things down is definitely an option, but man, does it send a message of “I don’t trust you”. This is a pretty toxic message for community members to experience, and leads to all kinds of other issues (far beyond security) that are totally avoidable simply by being intentional about trust.

We’re not naive about this, either. We’ve had a theft - and it came from within, from a new full time member. He was quickly caught red handed and removed. Equipment is replaceable. But a lot of trust that had been established among members was rocked to the core.

We had a conversation with our members about the theft. The belongings that went missing sucked, but the BIG issue that we had to deal with was a major breach of trust. When everyone looks at every new member suspiciously, again, that’s not a place that people want to be.

Cameras just tell you “whodunit” after the fact. What if you could reduce the odds of a situation before a camera ever has anything worth capturing?

We came up with another method: we have a 30 day waiting period on getting 24/7 access, and once that 30 day period is over, you need to get signatures from 3 other key holding members on a sheet that says “I’ve gotten to know and trust this person enough that I’m okay with them having keys around my and other peoples’ stuff.”

This sends a very different message to both new and existing members: first, new members get the feeling of “woah, it’s not just the staff or owners of this place that look out for things…it’s everyone, including my peers”. It also serves as a reminder to existing keyholders, that they’re responsible for more than just themselves.

Kinda like a neighborhood watch, which even the police will tell you they benefit from. It’s just not possible or practical to have presence everywhere, and even when you can, it’s rarely a way to manage risk that people WANT to have.

Think about how you feel going into a gas station where the attendant is behind bullet proof glass, vs. going to your local corner store to pick something up. You feel different in places that are on lockdown. Frankly, you want to GTFO. I have direct quotes from other coworking spaces, too: “We never totally took security as serious as how our members might feel within the space.”

We put this process in place 6 years ago, and have nothing but positive feedback about it from all sides (and have remained incident free). IN fact, things are generally FAR better taken care of because of it.

And unlike the last time this was brought up on the list (3+ years ago!), Indy Hall now includes a ground floor entrance AND is a two-floor layout, making the “neighborhood watch” model even more valuable for keeping eyes on the “streets” on both floors simultaneously.

-Alex

/ah

indyhall.org
coworking in philadelphia

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Jerome Chang [email protected] wrote:

Lock down each desktop w/ one of those cable and lock things. We did this back at the GSD studios.
Then password protect each computer even when idle for 10 min.

Add cameras to monitor off-hours.

Yes, have some legal wording to waive liability.

JEROME CHANG

Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036
ph: (323) 330-9505

Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013

ph: (213) 550-2235


<yelp-s.png>
<twitter-bird3-square.png><facebook-logo-square.png><linkedin-logo-square2.png><vimeo-s.png>



On Jul 12, 2014, at 5:07 PM, Rachel Cline [email protected] wrote:

Good afternoon,
I am new to the group and looking for some advise on security. My husband and I have shared an office for the last three years, he has an architecture firm and I do art consulting/brokerage. We are doubling our office size and will have 8 extra large work stations plus conference and gallery space as well as casual breakout ares and a work room, so we have decided to offer a small number of co-working memberships.

The one thing we are struggling with most is security, both for our members and our business belongings, we both have some pricey computers and I often have some valuable artwork in the space. We would like to offer access to the space during hours outside of normal business hours to higher level members but haven’t figured out a way to secure our computers etc since the area our employees work in is shared with the area we plan to use for co-working.

Has anyone out there dealt with similar conditions and what was your solution? If no solution, does it seem to restrictive to only offer access 8-6?

Also, should we have an attorney look at our contract to make sure we are not liable for actions of others in the space or to and from the street parking they will be using.

Thanks for your time and advise.

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


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Ok, so here are my biggest dilemmas with 24/7 access:

- who handles issues after hours, particularly related to equipment, wifi, printers/copiers, etc.?

- who is liable when something bad happens after hours when not "staffed"?

- ie., an intruder breaks in. What's the protocol? Who calls the cops? Who protects stuff, if at all? Would that lone member be responsible for the entire space? Or if several members are there when this happens, is that liability shared among all of them?

- if a member somehow lets someone else in intentionally/mistakenly, and something happens, who's responsible for that unfortunately critical oversight?

JEROME CHANG

Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036
ph: (323) 330-9505

Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013
ph: (213) 550-2235




···

/ah
indyhall.org

coworking in philadelphia

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 12:39 AM, Jerome Chang [email protected] wrote:

Awesome. You’ve got a great policy in place.

My advice was a knee-jerk comment based on being a fellow architect. My bad.

I guess my only revision to both Alex’s and my advice is that since Rachel’s coworking office is being added on to an existing/original office team, it might not be managed with a front desk/community manager or similar.

Alex, I take it that your GroupBuzz forum came in really handy in this case, huh?

JEROME CHANG

Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036
ph: (323) 330-9505

Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013

ph: (213) 550-2235


<yelp-s.png>
<twitter-bird3-square.png><facebook-logo-square.png><linkedin-logo-square2.png><vimeo-s.png>


On Jul 14, 2014, at 9:21 PM, Alex Hillman [email protected] wrote:

And in case you don’t believe me about the sense of responsibility that you can engender using our key/access approach:

Tonight we had a MAJOR storm come through Philly. So bad that the building next to ours caused water to leak into our space. In this case, our “intruder” was mother nature. No security cameras or lockdowns would’ve helped (in fact, anything locked down would’ve been damaged).

However, one of our members was there, called a couple of other members he knew could get ahold of staff. He carefully moved a couple of members’ belongings out of harms way of the water. There’s a bit of a mess, but nobody’s stuff got hurt.

Here’s the kicker: nearly all happened while I was on an airplane between LA and SFO. By the time I landed, just about everything we could’ve done for the night was resolved, including sending a note to the community about what had happened (including a heads up to the people whose stuff had to be moved).

The best part, though, is that when thanking the members for helping mitigate the damage, the very first thing George - who had spotted the water first and started calling people - said was,

*“Hey man, I’m a keyholder”. *

-Alex

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


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/ah
indyhall.org

coworking in philadelphia

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Alex Hillman [email protected] wrote:

Rachel,

For a bit of context: we have 50+ full time members’ computers/belongings, our own electronics/equipment, and a substantial art collection on loan at any given time…so I’ve felt many aspects of your pain.

Bolting things down is definitely an option, but man, does it send a message of “I don’t trust you”. This is a pretty toxic message for community members to experience, and leads to all kinds of other issues (far beyond security) that are totally avoidable simply by being intentional about trust.

We’re not naive about this, either. We’ve had a theft - and it came from within, from a new full time member. He was quickly caught red handed and removed. Equipment is replaceable. But a lot of trust that had been established among members was rocked to the core.

We had a conversation with our members about the theft. The belongings that went missing sucked, but the BIG issue that we had to deal with was a major breach of trust. When everyone looks at every new member suspiciously, again, that’s not a place that people want to be.

Cameras just tell you “whodunit” after the fact. What if you could reduce the odds of a situation before a camera ever has anything worth capturing?

We came up with another method: we have a 30 day waiting period on getting 24/7 access, and once that 30 day period is over, you need to get signatures from 3 other key holding members on a sheet that says “I’ve gotten to know and trust this person enough that I’m okay with them having keys around my and other peoples’ stuff.”

This sends a very different message to both new and existing members: first, new members get the feeling of “woah, it’s not just the staff or owners of this place that look out for things…it’s everyone, including my peers”. It also serves as a reminder to existing keyholders, that they’re responsible for more than just themselves.

Kinda like a neighborhood watch, which even the police will tell you they benefit from. It’s just not possible or practical to have presence everywhere, and even when you can, it’s rarely a way to manage risk that people WANT to have.

Think about how you feel going into a gas station where the attendant is behind bullet proof glass, vs. going to your local corner store to pick something up. You feel different in places that are on lockdown. Frankly, you want to GTFO. I have direct quotes from other coworking spaces, too: “We never totally took security as serious as how our members might feel within the space.”

We put this process in place 6 years ago, and have nothing but positive feedback about it from all sides (and have remained incident free). IN fact, things are generally FAR better taken care of because of it.

And unlike the last time this was brought up on the list (3+ years ago!), Indy Hall now includes a ground floor entrance AND is a two-floor layout, making the “neighborhood watch” model even more valuable for keeping eyes on the “streets” on both floors simultaneously.

-Alex

/ah

indyhall.org
coworking in philadelphia

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Jerome Chang [email protected] wrote:

Lock down each desktop w/ one of those cable and lock things. We did this back at the GSD studios.
Then password protect each computer even when idle for 10 min.

Add cameras to monitor off-hours.

Yes, have some legal wording to waive liability.

JEROME CHANG

Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036
ph: (323) 330-9505

Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013

ph: (213) 550-2235


<yelp-s.png>
<twitter-bird3-square.png><facebook-logo-square.png><linkedin-logo-square2.png><vimeo-s.png>



On Jul 12, 2014, at 5:07 PM, Rachel Cline [email protected] wrote:

Good afternoon,
I am new to the group and looking for some advise on security. My husband and I have shared an office for the last three years, he has an architecture firm and I do art consulting/brokerage. We are doubling our office size and will have 8 extra large work stations plus conference and gallery space as well as casual breakout ares and a work room, so we have decided to offer a small number of co-working memberships.

The one thing we are struggling with most is security, both for our members and our business belongings, we both have some pricey computers and I often have some valuable artwork in the space. We would like to offer access to the space during hours outside of normal business hours to higher level members but haven’t figured out a way to secure our computers etc since the area our employees work in is shared with the area we plan to use for co-working.

Has anyone out there dealt with similar conditions and what was your solution? If no solution, does it seem to restrictive to only offer access 8-6?

Also, should we have an attorney look at our contract to make sure we are not liable for actions of others in the space or to and from the street parking they will be using.

Thanks for your time and advise.

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


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This got long. :slight_smile:

**Caveat #1: everything I say below stems from the guiding business philosophy of “mitigating is the finite possible bad (while realizing that 100% prevention is impossible) so you can focus on creating infinite possible good”. **

In terms of liability and risk profile, bad things CAN always happen. In some cases, they WILL always happen. But statistically, MOST of the bad things that COULD happen will never happen, so you’re best to start by mitigataing/designing away the bad things that you are most likely to encounter. This list isn’t just finite, it’s surprisingly short once you turn to evidence instead of your imagination.

Caveat #2: This may not fit for everybody’s risk profile. But it’s also a mistake to think that I’m not huge risk taker. I don’t gamble or even invest in the stock market, but in things that I have some control over. By the time I’m taking a risk, I’ve done my research and made sure that the realest worst case scenario isn’t that bad. :slight_smile:

And before I jump into Jerome’s questions, I think it’s important to think about why after hours is even worth discussing.

About once a year, some of our community members bring up a discussion around “what if we had a nights and weekends membership?”

The thing that’s ALWAYS been the showstopper is that we don’t want to create an environment where people to be in the space are likely to be alone. Critical mass for a CONSISTENT nights/weekends attendance is surprisingly hard to build for most coworking-capable audiences. Think about how hard people find turning an empty office into a busy, vibrant community DURING THE DAY. Now you want to create the same problem again when the VAST majority of your potential members are asleep?

And remember I’m not even talking about consistent critical mass to be able to pay for overnight staffing (that’s rental & commodity-style thinking), I’m talking about **consistent critical mass for making sure that people aren’t coming in to be alone. **

Which is why I think that instead of thinking of 24/7 hour access as a “service”, it can be a convenience that is earned.

Some people like knowing they COULD come in outside of a tight time window a lot more than they actually come in. I’ve seen people go the route of charging a premium on top of “permanent desk” access for 24/7 access.

Fact: Everyone I’ve talked to about this has said that “premium 24/7 service” add-on generates ***non-***significant revenue, and the folks who DO sign up for it don’t stick around for very long because their usage is so erratic and they don’t get to know anybody. Yet one more thing that points to this not being a sustainable “service”, given the evidence for the audience.

Most commonly and practically, in my experience, 24/7 access has been a convenience for folks who wake up earlier or stay working later without worrying about being shuffled out by staff who needs to lock the door behind them. And so far, we’ve had exactly zero people protest any part of our model for earning that convenience.

- who handles issues after hours, particularly related to equipment, wifi, printers/copiers, etc.?

8 years/hundreds of members later, this has literally never been a question we’ve had to deal with.

The people who come in early generally have a max of 1-2 hours before staff gets in. If the internet is down, they:

1 - tether to their phone/hotspot

2 - do non-internet work

3 - swing by one of the cafes nearby for an hour or two

None are perfect, but so long as it’s not a habit people are pretty forgiving.

The people who stay late is a bit like the same thing in reverse. In the off chance that the internet stops working after hours, one of us gets an email/text and worst case scenario, they can

1 - tether to their phone/hotspot

2 - do non-interent work

3 - go home and use their internet there.

- who is liable when something bad happens after hours when not “staffed”?

I am not a lawyer. Talk to yours. They’ll probably tell you something like, “it depends on what the ‘something’ is.”

But, this is exactly why it’s so important to to trust the people who are there after hours, and why having a trust network to establish & maintain that trust is so valuable.

Also, we’re talking about a relatively small number of people who we need to manage this risk for. Less than 10% of the total people who COULD be there after hours, are, for any significant amount of time. Very, very low single digit percentages of our members are there more than 1 or 2 hours outside of the window of staffed hours.

It’s also why we have a really good liability insurance policy for if some kind of “something” does happen.

- ie., an intruder breaks in. What’s the protocol? Who calls the cops? Who protects stuff, if at all? Would that lone member be responsible for the entire space? Or if several members are there when this happens, is that liability shared among all of them?

Again, I’m not a lawyer. Talk to yours.

But what is protocol, except the rules that you hope people follow? What happens when they don’t follow them?

“Protocol” is generally the sort of thing that gets said once (and it rarely sticks), and maybe read once (or never).

In a true emergency situation, the last thing you’re thinking is “shit, what’s the protocol!? I don’t wanna miss a step!”

If not, and they call one of us, we’ll call the cops. If we both call the cops…again, what’s the worst thing that happens?

Either way, nobody is to ever put themselves in harms way for space or stuff. Frankly I don’t think that’s a real risk for us because nobody values space or stuff enough to protect it by putting themselves in harms way. That’s all commodity shit anyway. Completely replaceable, 100% insured.

Again, bad shit can happen anywhere, and for some reference, Philly is hardly a utopia. We have the 4th highest crime rate for cities our size in America (a.k.a the biggest cities in the country). Compare that to LA, which had the 6th lowest in the same category.

···

In terms of liability, once more, I’m not a lawyer. Talk to yours.

But how is this actually different from the theft that we experienced? I don’t think its terribly different. “We” (both the business and the community) welcomed a new member to our ranks and he stole shit. While I wish it hadn’t happened at all, and I’m both glad and bummed that it took 5 whole years before anything bad happened because if it happened sooner, we could’ve come up with this awesome mechanism that works so well in so many ways!

What mattered more to our community (and our business) was how we handled it after it happened because the WAY it happened, literally nobody would have been able to entirely predict or prevent. That’s never the goal.

More importantly, literally zero people called us out on being negligent (though frankly, they could have), because we all know each other beyond a desk rental transaction, trust each others intentions, and communicate those intentions regularly.

-Alex

/ah
indyhall.org

coworking in philadelphia

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 1:17 AM, Jerome Chang [email protected] wrote:

Ok, so here are my biggest dilemmas with 24/7 access:

  • who handles issues after hours, particularly related to equipment, wifi, printers/copiers, etc.?
  • who is liable when something bad happens after hours when not “staffed”?
  • ie., an intruder breaks in. What’s the protocol? Who calls the cops? Who protects stuff, if at all? Would that lone member be responsible for the entire space? Or if several members are there when this happens, is that liability shared among all of them?
  • if a member somehow lets someone else in intentionally/mistakenly, and something happens, who’s responsible for that unfortunately critical oversight?

JEROME CHANG

Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036
ph: (323) 330-9505

Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013

ph: (213) 550-2235




On Jul 14, 2014, at 9:54 PM, Alex Hillman [email protected] wrote:

it might not be managed with a front desk/community manager or similar.

All the more reason to want something where your non-agency coworking members to be looking out for things :slight_smile:

Alex, I take it that your GroupBuzz forum came in really handy in this case, huh?

That’s…a really good question - I don’t actually think it did, at least not directly. list.

Like I said in my other thread about GroupBuzz, it’s less of an “add-on backchannel” and a more of a community gather place unto itself. Those lines are definitely blurry, as stuff about the space is among the topics that gets discussed online.

But this time, it was the coworking space that was leaking, not GroupBuzz :wink:

If history repeats itself, my bet is that if George couldn’t have gotten ahold of anyone, he would’ve posted something though.

Now, if GroupBuzz did play a role, it might’ve been explicit, like helping George look up contact info for someone who he thought could help, or a bit more implicit, like the fact that George’s participation in GroupBuzz reinforces that sense of “looking after things” because it does come up in conversations quite a bit.

Either way, I’m definitely guessing. I will have to check with the crew who was involved tomorrow to find out for sure.

The only active role that I KNOW GroupBuzz played this time was communicating what happened and publicly acknowledging the folks who helped.

-Alex

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


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/ah
indyhall.org

coworking in philadelphia

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 12:39 AM, Jerome Chang [email protected] wrote:

Awesome. You’ve got a great policy in place.

My advice was a knee-jerk comment based on being a fellow architect. My bad.

I guess my only revision to both Alex’s and my advice is that since Rachel’s coworking office is being added on to an existing/original office team, it might not be managed with a front desk/community manager or similar.

Alex, I take it that your GroupBuzz forum came in really handy in this case, huh?

JEROME CHANG

Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036
ph: (323) 330-9505

Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013

ph: (213) 550-2235


<yelp-s.png>
<twitter-bird3-square.png><facebook-logo-square.png><linkedin-logo-square2.png><vimeo-s.png>


On Jul 14, 2014, at 9:21 PM, Alex Hillman [email protected] wrote:

And in case you don’t believe me about the sense of responsibility that you can engender using our key/access approach:

Tonight we had a MAJOR storm come through Philly. So bad that the building next to ours caused water to leak into our space. In this case, our “intruder” was mother nature. No security cameras or lockdowns would’ve helped (in fact, anything locked down would’ve been damaged).

However, one of our members was there, called a couple of other members he knew could get ahold of staff. He carefully moved a couple of members’ belongings out of harms way of the water. There’s a bit of a mess, but nobody’s stuff got hurt.

Here’s the kicker: nearly all happened while I was on an airplane between LA and SFO. By the time I landed, just about everything we could’ve done for the night was resolved, including sending a note to the community about what had happened (including a heads up to the people whose stuff had to be moved).

The best part, though, is that when thanking the members for helping mitigate the damage, the very first thing George - who had spotted the water first and started calling people - said was,

*“Hey man, I’m a keyholder”. *

-Alex

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


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/ah
indyhall.org

coworking in philadelphia

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Alex Hillman [email protected] wrote:

Rachel,

For a bit of context: we have 50+ full time members’ computers/belongings, our own electronics/equipment, and a substantial art collection on loan at any given time…so I’ve felt many aspects of your pain.

Bolting things down is definitely an option, but man, does it send a message of “I don’t trust you”. This is a pretty toxic message for community members to experience, and leads to all kinds of other issues (far beyond security) that are totally avoidable simply by being intentional about trust.

We’re not naive about this, either. We’ve had a theft - and it came from within, from a new full time member. He was quickly caught red handed and removed. Equipment is replaceable. But a lot of trust that had been established among members was rocked to the core.

We had a conversation with our members about the theft. The belongings that went missing sucked, but the BIG issue that we had to deal with was a major breach of trust. When everyone looks at every new member suspiciously, again, that’s not a place that people want to be.

Cameras just tell you “whodunit” after the fact. What if you could reduce the odds of a situation before a camera ever has anything worth capturing?

We came up with another method: we have a 30 day waiting period on getting 24/7 access, and once that 30 day period is over, you need to get signatures from 3 other key holding members on a sheet that says “I’ve gotten to know and trust this person enough that I’m okay with them having keys around my and other peoples’ stuff.”

This sends a very different message to both new and existing members: first, new members get the feeling of “woah, it’s not just the staff or owners of this place that look out for things…it’s everyone, including my peers”. It also serves as a reminder to existing keyholders, that they’re responsible for more than just themselves.

Kinda like a neighborhood watch, which even the police will tell you they benefit from. It’s just not possible or practical to have presence everywhere, and even when you can, it’s rarely a way to manage risk that people WANT to have.

Think about how you feel going into a gas station where the attendant is behind bullet proof glass, vs. going to your local corner store to pick something up. You feel different in places that are on lockdown. Frankly, you want to GTFO. I have direct quotes from other coworking spaces, too: “We never totally took security as serious as how our members might feel within the space.”

We put this process in place 6 years ago, and have nothing but positive feedback about it from all sides (and have remained incident free). IN fact, things are generally FAR better taken care of because of it.

And unlike the last time this was brought up on the list (3+ years ago!), Indy Hall now includes a ground floor entrance AND is a two-floor layout, making the “neighborhood watch” model even more valuable for keeping eyes on the “streets” on both floors simultaneously.

-Alex

/ah

indyhall.org
coworking in philadelphia

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Jerome Chang [email protected] wrote:

Lock down each desktop w/ one of those cable and lock things. We did this back at the GSD studios.
Then password protect each computer even when idle for 10 min.

Add cameras to monitor off-hours.

Yes, have some legal wording to waive liability.

JEROME CHANG

Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036
ph: (323) 330-9505

Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013

ph: (213) 550-2235


<yelp-s.png>
<twitter-bird3-square.png><facebook-logo-square.png><linkedin-logo-square2.png><vimeo-s.png>



On Jul 12, 2014, at 5:07 PM, Rachel Cline [email protected] wrote:

Good afternoon,
I am new to the group and looking for some advise on security. My husband and I have shared an office for the last three years, he has an architecture firm and I do art consulting/brokerage. We are doubling our office size and will have 8 extra large work stations plus conference and gallery space as well as casual breakout ares and a work room, so we have decided to offer a small number of co-working memberships.

The one thing we are struggling with most is security, both for our members and our business belongings, we both have some pricey computers and I often have some valuable artwork in the space. We would like to offer access to the space during hours outside of normal business hours to higher level members but haven’t figured out a way to secure our computers etc since the area our employees work in is shared with the area we plan to use for co-working.

Has anyone out there dealt with similar conditions and what was your solution? If no solution, does it seem to restrictive to only offer access 8-6?

Also, should we have an attorney look at our contract to make sure we are not liable for actions of others in the space or to and from the street parking they will be using.

Thanks for your time and advise.

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


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Alex, thank you so much for sharing all of this background - from the thought process behind nights/weekends to what it means to be a key holder at Indy Hall. It is very similar to our experience at Office Nomads. I thought this was particularly spot-on:

*Which is why I think that instead of thinking of 24/7 hour access as a “service”, it can be a convenience that is earned. *

Another reminder that coworking at it’s core has nothing to do with being a service provider.

Rock on!

S

···

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 12:35 AM, Alex Hillman [email protected] wrote:

This got long. :slight_smile:

**Caveat #1: everything I say below stems from the guiding business philosophy of “mitigating is the finite possible bad (while realizing that 100% prevention is impossible) so you can focus on creating infinite possible good”. **

In terms of liability and risk profile, bad things CAN always happen. In some cases, they WILL always happen. But statistically, MOST of the bad things that COULD happen will never happen, so you’re best to start by mitigataing/designing away the bad things that you are most likely to encounter. This list isn’t just finite, it’s surprisingly short once you turn to evidence instead of your imagination.

Caveat #2: This may not fit for everybody’s risk profile. But it’s also a mistake to think that I’m not huge risk taker. I don’t gamble or even invest in the stock market, but in things that I have some control over. By the time I’m taking a risk, I’ve done my research and made sure that the realest worst case scenario isn’t that bad. :slight_smile:

And before I jump into Jerome’s questions, I think it’s important to think about why after hours is even worth discussing.

About once a year, some of our community members bring up a discussion around “what if we had a nights and weekends membership?”

The thing that’s ALWAYS been the showstopper is that we don’t want to create an environment where people to be in the space are likely to be alone. Critical mass for a CONSISTENT nights/weekends attendance is surprisingly hard to build for most coworking-capable audiences. Think about how hard people find turning an empty office into a busy, vibrant community DURING THE DAY. Now you want to create the same problem again when the VAST majority of your potential members are asleep?

And remember I’m not even talking about consistent critical mass to be able to pay for overnight staffing (that’s rental & commodity-style thinking), I’m talking about **consistent critical mass for making sure that people aren’t coming in to be alone. **

Which is why I think that instead of thinking of 24/7 hour access as a “service”, it can be a convenience that is earned.

Some people like knowing they COULD come in outside of a tight time window a lot more than they actually come in. I’ve seen people go the route of charging a premium on top of “permanent desk” access for 24/7 access.

Fact: Everyone I’ve talked to about this has said that “premium 24/7 service” add-on generates ***non-***significant revenue, and the folks who DO sign up for it don’t stick around for very long because their usage is so erratic and they don’t get to know anybody. Yet one more thing that points to this not being a sustainable “service”, given the evidence for the audience.

Most commonly and practically, in my experience, 24/7 access has been a convenience for folks who wake up earlier or stay working later without worrying about being shuffled out by staff who needs to lock the door behind them. And so far, we’ve had exactly zero people protest any part of our model for earning that convenience.

- who handles issues after hours, particularly related to equipment, wifi, printers/copiers, etc.?

8 years/hundreds of members later, this has literally never been a question we’ve had to deal with.

The people who come in early generally have a max of 1-2 hours before staff gets in. If the internet is down, they:

1 - tether to their phone/hotspot

2 - do non-internet work

3 - swing by one of the cafes nearby for an hour or two

None are perfect, but so long as it’s not a habit people are pretty forgiving.

The people who stay late is a bit like the same thing in reverse. In the off chance that the internet stops working after hours, one of us gets an email/text and worst case scenario, they can

1 - tether to their phone/hotspot

2 - do non-interent work

3 - go home and use their internet there.

- who is liable when something bad happens after hours when not “staffed”?

I am not a lawyer. Talk to yours. They’ll probably tell you something like, “it depends on what the ‘something’ is.”

But, this is exactly why it’s so important to to trust the people who are there after hours, and why having a trust network to establish & maintain that trust is so valuable.

Also, we’re talking about a relatively small number of people who we need to manage this risk for. Less than 10% of the total people who COULD be there after hours, are, for any significant amount of time. Very, very low single digit percentages of our members are there more than 1 or 2 hours outside of the window of staffed hours.

It’s also why we have a really good liability insurance policy for if some kind of “something” does happen.

- ie., an intruder breaks in. What’s the protocol? Who calls the cops? Who protects stuff, if at all? Would that lone member be responsible for the entire space? Or if several members are there when this happens, is that liability shared among all of them?

Again, I’m not a lawyer. Talk to yours.

But what is protocol, except the rules that you hope people follow? What happens when they don’t follow them?

“Protocol” is generally the sort of thing that gets said once (and it rarely sticks), and maybe read once (or never).

In a true emergency situation, the last thing you’re thinking is “shit, what’s the protocol!? I don’t wanna miss a step!”

From my perspective, if a member called the cops before they call one of us (especially if we’re not there), I don’t see how that’s a bad thing.

If not, and they call one of us, we’ll call the cops. If we both call the cops…again, what’s the worst thing that happens?

Either way, nobody is to ever put themselves in harms way for space or stuff. Frankly I don’t think that’s a real risk for us because nobody values space or stuff enough to protect it by putting themselves in harms way. That’s all commodity shit anyway. Completely replaceable, 100% insured.

Again, bad shit can happen anywhere, and for some reference, Philly is hardly a utopia. We have the 4th highest crime rate for cities our size in America (a.k.a the biggest cities in the country). Compare that to LA, which had the 6th lowest in the same category.

- if a member somehow lets someone else in intentionally/mistakenly, and something happens, who’s responsible for that unfortunately critical oversight?

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In terms of liability, once more, I’m not a lawyer. Talk to yours.

But how is this actually different from the theft that we experienced? I don’t think its terribly different. “We” (both the business and the community) welcomed a new member to our ranks and he stole shit. While I wish it hadn’t happened at all, and I’m both glad and bummed that it took 5 whole years before anything bad happened because if it happened sooner, we could’ve come up with this awesome mechanism that works so well in so many ways!

What mattered more to our community (and our business) was how we handled it after it happened because the WAY it happened, literally nobody would have been able to entirely predict or prevent. That’s never the goal.

More importantly, literally zero people called us out on being negligent (though frankly, they could have), because we all know each other beyond a desk rental transaction, trust each others intentions, and communicate those intentions regularly.

-Alex

/ah
indyhall.org

coworking in philadelphia

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 1:17 AM, Jerome Chang [email protected] wrote:

Ok, so here are my biggest dilemmas with 24/7 access:

  • who handles issues after hours, particularly related to equipment, wifi, printers/copiers, etc.?
  • who is liable when something bad happens after hours when not “staffed”?
  • ie., an intruder breaks in. What’s the protocol? Who calls the cops? Who protects stuff, if at all? Would that lone member be responsible for the entire space? Or if several members are there when this happens, is that liability shared among all of them?
  • if a member somehow lets someone else in intentionally/mistakenly, and something happens, who’s responsible for that unfortunately critical oversight?

JEROME CHANG

Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036
ph: (323) 330-9505

Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013

ph: (213) 550-2235




On Jul 14, 2014, at 9:54 PM, Alex Hillman [email protected] wrote:

it might not be managed with a front desk/community manager or similar.

All the more reason to want something where your non-agency coworking members to be looking out for things :slight_smile:

Alex, I take it that your GroupBuzz forum came in really handy in this case, huh?

That’s…a really good question - I don’t actually think it did, at least not directly. list.

Like I said in my other thread about GroupBuzz, it’s less of an “add-on backchannel” and a more of a community gather place unto itself. Those lines are definitely blurry, as stuff about the space is among the topics that gets discussed online.

But this time, it was the coworking space that was leaking, not GroupBuzz :wink:

If history repeats itself, my bet is that if George couldn’t have gotten ahold of anyone, he would’ve posted something though.

Now, if GroupBuzz did play a role, it might’ve been explicit, like helping George look up contact info for someone who he thought could help, or a bit more implicit, like the fact that George’s participation in GroupBuzz reinforces that sense of “looking after things” because it does come up in conversations quite a bit.

Either way, I’m definitely guessing. I will have to check with the crew who was involved tomorrow to find out for sure.

The only active role that I KNOW GroupBuzz played this time was communicating what happened and publicly acknowledging the folks who helped.

-Alex

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/ah
indyhall.org

coworking in philadelphia

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 12:39 AM, Jerome Chang [email protected] wrote:

Awesome. You’ve got a great policy in place.

My advice was a knee-jerk comment based on being a fellow architect. My bad.

I guess my only revision to both Alex’s and my advice is that since Rachel’s coworking office is being added on to an existing/original office team, it might not be managed with a front desk/community manager or similar.

Alex, I take it that your GroupBuzz forum came in really handy in this case, huh?

JEROME CHANG

Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036
ph: (323) 330-9505

Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013

ph: (213) 550-2235


<yelp-s.png>
<twitter-bird3-square.png><facebook-logo-square.png><linkedin-logo-square2.png><vimeo-s.png>


On Jul 14, 2014, at 9:21 PM, Alex Hillman [email protected] wrote:

And in case you don’t believe me about the sense of responsibility that you can engender using our key/access approach:

Tonight we had a MAJOR storm come through Philly. So bad that the building next to ours caused water to leak into our space. In this case, our “intruder” was mother nature. No security cameras or lockdowns would’ve helped (in fact, anything locked down would’ve been damaged).

However, one of our members was there, called a couple of other members he knew could get ahold of staff. He carefully moved a couple of members’ belongings out of harms way of the water. There’s a bit of a mess, but nobody’s stuff got hurt.

Here’s the kicker: nearly all happened while I was on an airplane between LA and SFO. By the time I landed, just about everything we could’ve done for the night was resolved, including sending a note to the community about what had happened (including a heads up to the people whose stuff had to be moved).

The best part, though, is that when thanking the members for helping mitigate the damage, the very first thing George - who had spotted the water first and started calling people - said was,

*“Hey man, I’m a keyholder”. *

-Alex

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/ah
indyhall.org

coworking in philadelphia

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Alex Hillman [email protected] wrote:

Rachel,

For a bit of context: we have 50+ full time members’ computers/belongings, our own electronics/equipment, and a substantial art collection on loan at any given time…so I’ve felt many aspects of your pain.

Bolting things down is definitely an option, but man, does it send a message of “I don’t trust you”. This is a pretty toxic message for community members to experience, and leads to all kinds of other issues (far beyond security) that are totally avoidable simply by being intentional about trust.

We’re not naive about this, either. We’ve had a theft - and it came from within, from a new full time member. He was quickly caught red handed and removed. Equipment is replaceable. But a lot of trust that had been established among members was rocked to the core.

We had a conversation with our members about the theft. The belongings that went missing sucked, but the BIG issue that we had to deal with was a major breach of trust. When everyone looks at every new member suspiciously, again, that’s not a place that people want to be.

Cameras just tell you “whodunit” after the fact. What if you could reduce the odds of a situation before a camera ever has anything worth capturing?

We came up with another method: we have a 30 day waiting period on getting 24/7 access, and once that 30 day period is over, you need to get signatures from 3 other key holding members on a sheet that says “I’ve gotten to know and trust this person enough that I’m okay with them having keys around my and other peoples’ stuff.”

This sends a very different message to both new and existing members: first, new members get the feeling of “woah, it’s not just the staff or owners of this place that look out for things…it’s everyone, including my peers”. It also serves as a reminder to existing keyholders, that they’re responsible for more than just themselves.

Kinda like a neighborhood watch, which even the police will tell you they benefit from. It’s just not possible or practical to have presence everywhere, and even when you can, it’s rarely a way to manage risk that people WANT to have.

Think about how you feel going into a gas station where the attendant is behind bullet proof glass, vs. going to your local corner store to pick something up. You feel different in places that are on lockdown. Frankly, you want to GTFO. I have direct quotes from other coworking spaces, too: “We never totally took security as serious as how our members might feel within the space.”

We put this process in place 6 years ago, and have nothing but positive feedback about it from all sides (and have remained incident free). IN fact, things are generally FAR better taken care of because of it.

And unlike the last time this was brought up on the list (3+ years ago!), Indy Hall now includes a ground floor entrance AND is a two-floor layout, making the “neighborhood watch” model even more valuable for keeping eyes on the “streets” on both floors simultaneously.

-Alex

/ah

indyhall.org
coworking in philadelphia

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Jerome Chang [email protected] wrote:

Lock down each desktop w/ one of those cable and lock things. We did this back at the GSD studios.
Then password protect each computer even when idle for 10 min.

Add cameras to monitor off-hours.

Yes, have some legal wording to waive liability.

JEROME CHANG

Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036
ph: (323) 330-9505

Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013

ph: (213) 550-2235


<yelp-s.png>
<twitter-bird3-square.png><facebook-logo-square.png><linkedin-logo-square2.png><vimeo-s.png>



On Jul 12, 2014, at 5:07 PM, Rachel Cline [email protected] wrote:

Good afternoon,
I am new to the group and looking for some advise on security. My husband and I have shared an office for the last three years, he has an architecture firm and I do art consulting/brokerage. We are doubling our office size and will have 8 extra large work stations plus conference and gallery space as well as casual breakout ares and a work room, so we have decided to offer a small number of co-working memberships.

The one thing we are struggling with most is security, both for our members and our business belongings, we both have some pricey computers and I often have some valuable artwork in the space. We would like to offer access to the space during hours outside of normal business hours to higher level members but haven’t figured out a way to secure our computers etc since the area our employees work in is shared with the area we plan to use for co-working.

Has anyone out there dealt with similar conditions and what was your solution? If no solution, does it seem to restrictive to only offer access 8-6?

Also, should we have an attorney look at our contract to make sure we are not liable for actions of others in the space or to and from the street parking they will be using.

Thanks for your time and advise.

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Yes !

+1 for Alex.

Trust is earned and deserved.

Nicolas Bergé

Les Satellites

Really awesome commenting Alex, learned a lot thanks!
I love the idea of having three people sign up on your behalf for 24/7 access. We may implement that.

A little bit of our experience regarding security.

For us 24/7 access wasn’t a question, our reality is that startups work at night and on weekends so we are open until late every day. (Hey it’s sunday and we had 4 people here without me, I’m here well reading the list :slight_smile:

We hand over keycards and explain to people they should clean up after they leave. There is a part of the space where people drop the stuff that should stay here over night. Nothing has keys.

We have a lost and found box where everything you don’t know goes to.

Got security camara’s we barely remember they are there and the moments we have used them is to find out if someone was here with a friend and didn’t pay for the day pass :stuck_out_tongue:

Keycard access with logs and everything, we use this mostly for billing and tracking attendance.

We got a label printer and we label pretty much anything that you shouldn’t take home with you. Water bottles, special pens, phone chargers, etc. Everything else is up for you to use and sometimes take (like swag pens and stuff)

In contrasts the tower were we are at has the rest of security and the same keycard access.

We own a small coffeeshop which has a lock because it’s outside of the keycard area however the Coca Cola Machine has no locks and so far we haven’t sense any lost of inventory. Members even store their stuff in it from time to time and some even grab a soda and when the girl that runs it comes by pay her for what they grabbed.

Bottomline it’s up to what Adam pointed out if your community is composed of people you trust there is no need to lock down anything.

···

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Kenton Hansen [email protected] wrote:

Dropcam is easy to deploy and relatively cheap video monitoring.

On Monday, July 14, 2014 9:37:29 PM UTC-5, Jerome wrote:

Lock down each desktop w/ one of those cable and lock things. We did this back at the GSD studios.
Then password protect each computer even when idle for 10 min.

Add cameras to monitor off-hours.

Yes, have some legal wording to waive liability.
JEROME CHANG

Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036
ph: (323) 330-9505

Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013

ph: (213) 550-2235




On Jul 12, 2014, at 5:07 PM, Rachel Cline [email protected] wrote:

Good afternoon,
I am new to the group and looking for some advise on security. My husband and I have shared an office for the last three years, he has an architecture firm and I do art consulting/brokerage. We are doubling our office size and will have 8 extra large work stations plus conference and gallery space as well as casual breakout ares and a work room, so we have decided to offer a small number of co-working memberships.

The one thing we are struggling with most is security, both for our members and our business belongings, we both have some pricey computers and I often have some valuable artwork in the space. We would like to offer access to the space during hours outside of normal business hours to higher level members but haven’t figured out a way to secure our computers etc since the area our employees work in is shared with the area we plan to use for co-working.

Has anyone out there dealt with similar conditions and what was your solution? If no solution, does it seem to restrictive to only offer access 8-6?

Also, should we have an attorney look at our contract to make sure we are not liable for actions of others in the space or to and from the street parking they will be using.

Thanks for your time and advise.

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


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I just want to thank you all for the thoughtfull responses and the useful information and tips. I have not been receiving updates on this post for some reason and just logged in to do some research, you all are amazing and have given me so much to think about. looks like we will be “going live” in about 5 weeks and its super exciting!

···

On Saturday, July 12, 2014 5:07:00 PM UTC-7, Rachel Cline wrote:

Good afternoon,
I am new to the group and looking for some advise on security. My husband and I have shared an office for the last three years, he has an architecture firm and I do art consulting/brokerage. We are doubling our office size and will have 8 extra large work stations plus conference and gallery space as well as casual breakout ares and a work room, so we have decided to offer a small number of co-working memberships.

The one thing we are struggling with most is security, both for our members and our business belongings, we both have some pricey computers and I often have some valuable artwork in the space. We would like to offer access to the space during hours outside of normal business hours to higher level members but haven’t figured out a way to secure our computers etc since the area our employees work in is shared with the area we plan to use for co-working.

Has anyone out there dealt with similar conditions and what was your solution? If no solution, does it seem to restrictive to only offer access 8-6?

Also, should we have an attorney look at our contract to make sure we are not liable for actions of others in the space or to and from the street parking they will be using.

Thanks for your time and advise.