Advice on property developer joint venture offer

Saw someone bumped an old thread about JVs and it’s prompted me to reach out for some help/advice/thoughts about a major opportunity I have right now. All opinions welcome!

So, as many of you know, I run The Guild in Bath, UK- 3500 sq ft- established 2013- 150 members. Full with a waiting list and negotiating on a new 12k space to grow into. My obsession is automating all the boring stuff so my team can concentrate on making our members day from the moment they walk in. I have never written a line of code in my life, and I use the miracle of Zapier together with a billion cloud based tools (most notably Nexudus and Podio).

I’ve now got to the point where this place runs so well without me I don’t actually need to come here. I’m spending most of my time trying to open Guilds elsewhere, but it’s a tough call right now here in the UK, which is having a major commercial property boom alongside a crazy law which allows anyone with a commercial property to convert it to residential without needing permission- so transferring rare commercial property into red hot residential property at a time that the UK is in a major residential bubble. It’s made property deals incredibly difficult for us, and more so given that there’s now an added dimension here in Bath- developers are going crazy for student developments (we’re a two university city), and even more commercial properties/offices are going away forever.

Anyway, in the midst of all this I’ve been approached by someone who wants to do something with me . This guy is major league. I can’t say who, but you will have heard of him- he’s founder and head of a global fashion brand. He came in when we opened and stayed in touch. He’s got a property fund, and specialises in creating mixed use developments (residential, hotels, offices, leisure on one site).

So, this guy has aquired a plot of land and wants me to come up with a concept for a hub within a development they are proposing. The inference is that if we can build something together in this first plot, then we’ll be popping up whenever they develop other sites. So whereas now it’s a office, a hotel, a restaurant and a cinema, in future he’d drop in all that plus a Guild.

I know the plot and the area is ripe for a coworking space. The demand isn’t an issue, and the model I’ve built here is sound. It’s a 9000 sq ft space, with 5m height in some areas, and that’s all I’ve been given. Before we go any further, he’s asked me what I’d do with it and on what basis. I know these guys have worked on shared revenue/JV basis before, but I don’t know on what exact basis, so I’m keen to come up with a sensible proposal.

Given all that, does anyone have any similar experience, or advice on what to suggest. Assume I know all my numbers, so that’s not an issue, and profitability isn’t an issue. I don’t have any capital, or the covenant to sign a straight lease, and this guy can help with both of those, either by providing a capital contribution or guaranteeing lease finance etc. In return, I’m guessing we should create an SPV and do a profitability/equity split, right? What I’m not so sure on is how that should work- should I build in payment for myself and my tech or should I leave that out as that’ll shake out in the profit share, otherwise I’m double dipping? Should we go for rent free or would the landlord expect a rent from the SPV even though they are an equity partner?

As I say, I appreciate this is something I need to get more formal advice on, but thought I’d just throw it out there, in case anyone can help with ideas or advice, or if there’s anyone out there who could sell me some time/knowledge.

Cheers

Tom

Congrats on this opp!

Have you built a quick biz plan/pro forma to see what kind of #'s are required? That’ll help dictate whether you’ll do a JV or management agreement. In general, I think you should build in payment for your tech and you, but you might consider a base payment/management fee plus a % of the upside, whether that’s thru equity or just gross revenue (a la franchises)

···

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 10:39 AM, Tom Lewis [email protected] wrote:

Saw someone bumped an old thread about JVs and it’s prompted me to reach out for some help/advice/thoughts about a major opportunity I have right now. All opinions welcome!

So, as many of you know, I run The Guild in Bath, UK- 3500 sq ft- established 2013- 150 members. Full with a waiting list and negotiating on a new 12k space to grow into. My obsession is automating all the boring stuff so my team can concentrate on making our members day from the moment they walk in. I have never written a line of code in my life, and I use the miracle of Zapier together with a billion cloud based tools (most notably Nexudus and Podio).

I’ve now got to the point where this place runs so well without me I don’t actually need to come here. I’m spending most of my time trying to open Guilds elsewhere, but it’s a tough call right now here in the UK, which is having a major commercial property boom alongside a crazy law which allows anyone with a commercial property to convert it to residential without needing permission- so transferring rare commercial property into red hot residential property at a time that the UK is in a major residential bubble. It’s made property deals incredibly difficult for us, and more so given that there’s now an added dimension here in Bath- developers are going crazy for student developments (we’re a two university city), and even more commercial properties/offices are going away forever.

Anyway, in the midst of all this I’ve been approached by someone who wants to do something with me . This guy is major league. I can’t say who, but you will have heard of him- he’s founder and head of a global fashion brand. He came in when we opened and stayed in touch. He’s got a property fund, and specialises in creating mixed use developments (residential, hotels, offices, leisure on one site).

So, this guy has aquired a plot of land and wants me to come up with a concept for a hub within a development they are proposing. The inference is that if we can build something together in this first plot, then we’ll be popping up whenever they develop other sites. So whereas now it’s a office, a hotel, a restaurant and a cinema, in future he’d drop in all that plus a Guild.

I know the plot and the area is ripe for a coworking space. The demand isn’t an issue, and the model I’ve built here is sound. It’s a 9000 sq ft space, with 5m height in some areas, and that’s all I’ve been given. Before we go any further, he’s asked me what I’d do with it and on what basis. I know these guys have worked on shared revenue/JV basis before, but I don’t know on what exact basis, so I’m keen to come up with a sensible proposal.

Given all that, does anyone have any similar experience, or advice on what to suggest. Assume I know all my numbers, so that’s not an issue, and profitability isn’t an issue. I don’t have any capital, or the covenant to sign a straight lease, and this guy can help with both of those, either by providing a capital contribution or guaranteeing lease finance etc. In return, I’m guessing we should create an SPV and do a profitability/equity split, right? What I’m not so sure on is how that should work- should I build in payment for myself and my tech or should I leave that out as that’ll shake out in the profit share, otherwise I’m double dipping? Should we go for rent free or would the landlord expect a rent from the SPV even though they are an equity partner?

As I say, I appreciate this is something I need to get more formal advice on, but thought I’d just throw it out there, in case anyone can help with ideas or advice, or if there’s anyone out there who could sell me some time/knowledge.

Cheers

Tom

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

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JEROME CHANG

www.BLANKSPACES.com

Thanks Jerome. Yes have plugged the numbers into my master spreadsheet that I use to run this space (with a modification to match the difference in local demand in the ratio of coworking/desks/office), and it’s as you’d expect- I could just propose a management fee and make £XXXXX a year, or a JV and make from -£XXXX to +£XXXXXX a year. It’s all risk and return isn’t it like any other business opportunity?

I guess I’m trying to consider there a spectrum from pure “pay me a management fee” and “let’s go 50/50”- and somewhere along that spectrum is a balance that works for me. I’ve tried to look at it from their point of view- they have a building/space which they aren’t going to lose whatever happens (though there is the opportunity cost of rent if they let me have it). They’ve also got pretty much unlimited access to capital. I’ve got the skills and the proof that I can make it work. I’m guessing there’s an element from their side of using a workspace element to smooth the way through the local authority planning process (ie “yes we’re building a hotel but we’re replacing lost commercial space too”), so I have a value there. I just don’t know whether to go in at 50/50, or 80/20, or with a commercial management fee plus less equity, or more equity and a subsidised fee.

Aware that all of these are things I need to figure out myself, maybe just helps to think aloud!

Cheers

Tom

···

On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 18:53:12 UTC+1, Jerome wrote:

Congrats on this opp!

Have you built a quick biz plan/pro forma to see what kind of #'s are required? That’ll help dictate whether you’ll do a JV or management agreement. In general, I think you should build in payment for your tech and you, but you might consider a base payment/management fee plus a % of the upside, whether that’s thru equity or just gross revenue (a la franchises)

JEROME CHANG

www.BLANKSPACES.com

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 10:39 AM, Tom Lewis [email protected] wrote:

Saw someone bumped an old thread about JVs and it’s prompted me to reach out for some help/advice/thoughts about a major opportunity I have right now. All opinions welcome!

So, as many of you know, I run The Guild in Bath, UK- 3500 sq ft- established 2013- 150 members. Full with a waiting list and negotiating on a new 12k space to grow into. My obsession is automating all the boring stuff so my team can concentrate on making our members day from the moment they walk in. I have never written a line of code in my life, and I use the miracle of Zapier together with a billion cloud based tools (most notably Nexudus and Podio).

I’ve now got to the point where this place runs so well without me I don’t actually need to come here. I’m spending most of my time trying to open Guilds elsewhere, but it’s a tough call right now here in the UK, which is having a major commercial property boom alongside a crazy law which allows anyone with a commercial property to convert it to residential without needing permission- so transferring rare commercial property into red hot residential property at a time that the UK is in a major residential bubble. It’s made property deals incredibly difficult for us, and more so given that there’s now an added dimension here in Bath- developers are going crazy for student developments (we’re a two university city), and even more commercial properties/offices are going away forever.

Anyway, in the midst of all this I’ve been approached by someone who wants to do something with me . This guy is major league. I can’t say who, but you will have heard of him- he’s founder and head of a global fashion brand. He came in when we opened and stayed in touch. He’s got a property fund, and specialises in creating mixed use developments (residential, hotels, offices, leisure on one site).

So, this guy has aquired a plot of land and wants me to come up with a concept for a hub within a development they are proposing. The inference is that if we can build something together in this first plot, then we’ll be popping up whenever they develop other sites. So whereas now it’s a office, a hotel, a restaurant and a cinema, in future he’d drop in all that plus a Guild.

I know the plot and the area is ripe for a coworking space. The demand isn’t an issue, and the model I’ve built here is sound. It’s a 9000 sq ft space, with 5m height in some areas, and that’s all I’ve been given. Before we go any further, he’s asked me what I’d do with it and on what basis. I know these guys have worked on shared revenue/JV basis before, but I don’t know on what exact basis, so I’m keen to come up with a sensible proposal.

Given all that, does anyone have any similar experience, or advice on what to suggest. Assume I know all my numbers, so that’s not an issue, and profitability isn’t an issue. I don’t have any capital, or the covenant to sign a straight lease, and this guy can help with both of those, either by providing a capital contribution or guaranteeing lease finance etc. In return, I’m guessing we should create an SPV and do a profitability/equity split, right? What I’m not so sure on is how that should work- should I build in payment for myself and my tech or should I leave that out as that’ll shake out in the profit share, otherwise I’m double dipping? Should we go for rent free or would the landlord expect a rent from the SPV even though they are an equity partner?

As I say, I appreciate this is something I need to get more formal advice on, but thought I’d just throw it out there, in case anyone can help with ideas or advice, or if there’s anyone out there who could sell me some time/knowledge.

Cheers

Tom

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected].

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How about thinking of it in terms of hierarchy? A JV will get you on par as equal partner.
A management agreement would make them a client and you essentially an employee.

Could you carve out a minority stake in the JV/New-Company, but be the controlling manager?

···

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Tom Lewis [email protected] wrote:

Thanks Jerome. Yes have plugged the numbers into my master spreadsheet that I use to run this space (with a modification to match the difference in local demand in the ratio of coworking/desks/office), and it’s as you’d expect- I could just propose a management fee and make £XXXXX a year, or a JV and make from -£XXXX to +£XXXXXX a year. It’s all risk and return isn’t it like any other business opportunity?

I guess I’m trying to consider there a spectrum from pure “pay me a management fee” and “let’s go 50/50”- and somewhere along that spectrum is a balance that works for me. I’ve tried to look at it from their point of view- they have a building/space which they aren’t going to lose whatever happens (though there is the opportunity cost of rent if they let me have it). They’ve also got pretty much unlimited access to capital. I’ve got the skills and the proof that I can make it work. I’m guessing there’s an element from their side of using a workspace element to smooth the way through the local authority planning process (ie “yes we’re building a hotel but we’re replacing lost commercial space too”), so I have a value there. I just don’t know whether to go in at 50/50, or 80/20, or with a commercial management fee plus less equity, or more equity and a subsidised fee.

Aware that all of these are things I need to figure out myself, maybe just helps to think aloud!

Cheers

Tom

On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 18:53:12 UTC+1, Jerome wrote:

Congrats on this opp!

Have you built a quick biz plan/pro forma to see what kind of #'s are required? That’ll help dictate whether you’ll do a JV or management agreement. In general, I think you should build in payment for your tech and you, but you might consider a base payment/management fee plus a % of the upside, whether that’s thru equity or just gross revenue (a la franchises)

JEROME CHANG

www.BLANKSPACES.com

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 10:39 AM, Tom Lewis [email protected] wrote:

Saw someone bumped an old thread about JVs and it’s prompted me to reach out for some help/advice/thoughts about a major opportunity I have right now. All opinions welcome!

So, as many of you know, I run The Guild in Bath, UK- 3500 sq ft- established 2013- 150 members. Full with a waiting list and negotiating on a new 12k space to grow into. My obsession is automating all the boring stuff so my team can concentrate on making our members day from the moment they walk in. I have never written a line of code in my life, and I use the miracle of Zapier together with a billion cloud based tools (most notably Nexudus and Podio).

I’ve now got to the point where this place runs so well without me I don’t actually need to come here. I’m spending most of my time trying to open Guilds elsewhere, but it’s a tough call right now here in the UK, which is having a major commercial property boom alongside a crazy law which allows anyone with a commercial property to convert it to residential without needing permission- so transferring rare commercial property into red hot residential property at a time that the UK is in a major residential bubble. It’s made property deals incredibly difficult for us, and more so given that there’s now an added dimension here in Bath- developers are going crazy for student developments (we’re a two university city), and even more commercial properties/offices are going away forever.

Anyway, in the midst of all this I’ve been approached by someone who wants to do something with me . This guy is major league. I can’t say who, but you will have heard of him- he’s founder and head of a global fashion brand. He came in when we opened and stayed in touch. He’s got a property fund, and specialises in creating mixed use developments (residential, hotels, offices, leisure on one site).

So, this guy has aquired a plot of land and wants me to come up with a concept for a hub within a development they are proposing. The inference is that if we can build something together in this first plot, then we’ll be popping up whenever they develop other sites. So whereas now it’s a office, a hotel, a restaurant and a cinema, in future he’d drop in all that plus a Guild.

I know the plot and the area is ripe for a coworking space. The demand isn’t an issue, and the model I’ve built here is sound. It’s a 9000 sq ft space, with 5m height in some areas, and that’s all I’ve been given. Before we go any further, he’s asked me what I’d do with it and on what basis. I know these guys have worked on shared revenue/JV basis before, but I don’t know on what exact basis, so I’m keen to come up with a sensible proposal.

Given all that, does anyone have any similar experience, or advice on what to suggest. Assume I know all my numbers, so that’s not an issue, and profitability isn’t an issue. I don’t have any capital, or the covenant to sign a straight lease, and this guy can help with both of those, either by providing a capital contribution or guaranteeing lease finance etc. In return, I’m guessing we should create an SPV and do a profitability/equity split, right? What I’m not so sure on is how that should work- should I build in payment for myself and my tech or should I leave that out as that’ll shake out in the profit share, otherwise I’m double dipping? Should we go for rent free or would the landlord expect a rent from the SPV even though they are an equity partner?

As I say, I appreciate this is something I need to get more formal advice on, but thought I’d just throw it out there, in case anyone can help with ideas or advice, or if there’s anyone out there who could sell me some time/knowledge.

Cheers

Tom

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

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Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


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JEROME CHANG

www.BLANKSPACES.com

Would you marry someone on the first date?

You’ve put a lot of work into building your operation and your community. Along with it, your credibility.

Even if the numbers look awesome, I’d highly highly highly recommend taking your time getting to know this person. Not saying they aren’t a great business partner - but you owe it to yourself and your hard work to take your time and actually learn what he’s about.

It’s nice to feel wanted. Just don’t let it blind you.

-Alex

···

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Tom Lewis [email protected] wrote:

Thanks Jerome. Yes have plugged the numbers into my master spreadsheet that I use to run this space (with a modification to match the difference in local demand in the ratio of coworking/desks/office), and it’s as you’d expect- I could just propose a management fee and make £XXXXX a year, or a JV and make from -£XXXX to +£XXXXXX a year. It’s all risk and return isn’t it like any other business opportunity?

I guess I’m trying to consider there a spectrum from pure “pay me a management fee” and “let’s go 50/50”- and somewhere along that spectrum is a balance that works for me. I’ve tried to look at it from their point of view- they have a building/space which they aren’t going to lose whatever happens (though there is the opportunity cost of rent if they let me have it). They’ve also got pretty much unlimited access to capital. I’ve got the skills and the proof that I can make it work. I’m guessing there’s an element from their side of using a workspace element to smooth the way through the local authority planning process (ie “yes we’re building a hotel but we’re replacing lost commercial space too”), so I have a value there. I just don’t know whether to go in at 50/50, or 80/20, or with a commercial management fee plus less equity, or more equity and a subsidised fee.

Aware that all of these are things I need to figure out myself, maybe just helps to think aloud!

Cheers

Tom

On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 18:53:12 UTC+1, Jerome wrote:

Congrats on this opp!

Have you built a quick biz plan/pro forma to see what kind of #'s are required? That’ll help dictate whether you’ll do a JV or management agreement. In general, I think you should build in payment for your tech and you, but you might consider a base payment/management fee plus a % of the upside, whether that’s thru equity or just gross revenue (a la franchises)

JEROME CHANG

www.BLANKSPACES.com

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 10:39 AM, Tom Lewis [email protected] wrote:

Saw someone bumped an old thread about JVs and it’s prompted me to reach out for some help/advice/thoughts about a major opportunity I have right now. All opinions welcome!

So, as many of you know, I run The Guild in Bath, UK- 3500 sq ft- established 2013- 150 members. Full with a waiting list and negotiating on a new 12k space to grow into. My obsession is automating all the boring stuff so my team can concentrate on making our members day from the moment they walk in. I have never written a line of code in my life, and I use the miracle of Zapier together with a billion cloud based tools (most notably Nexudus and Podio).

I’ve now got to the point where this place runs so well without me I don’t actually need to come here. I’m spending most of my time trying to open Guilds elsewhere, but it’s a tough call right now here in the UK, which is having a major commercial property boom alongside a crazy law which allows anyone with a commercial property to convert it to residential without needing permission- so transferring rare commercial property into red hot residential property at a time that the UK is in a major residential bubble. It’s made property deals incredibly difficult for us, and more so given that there’s now an added dimension here in Bath- developers are going crazy for student developments (we’re a two university city), and even more commercial properties/offices are going away forever.

Anyway, in the midst of all this I’ve been approached by someone who wants to do something with me . This guy is major league. I can’t say who, but you will have heard of him- he’s founder and head of a global fashion brand. He came in when we opened and stayed in touch. He’s got a property fund, and specialises in creating mixed use developments (residential, hotels, offices, leisure on one site).

So, this guy has aquired a plot of land and wants me to come up with a concept for a hub within a development they are proposing. The inference is that if we can build something together in this first plot, then we’ll be popping up whenever they develop other sites. So whereas now it’s a office, a hotel, a restaurant and a cinema, in future he’d drop in all that plus a Guild.

I know the plot and the area is ripe for a coworking space. The demand isn’t an issue, and the model I’ve built here is sound. It’s a 9000 sq ft space, with 5m height in some areas, and that’s all I’ve been given. Before we go any further, he’s asked me what I’d do with it and on what basis. I know these guys have worked on shared revenue/JV basis before, but I don’t know on what exact basis, so I’m keen to come up with a sensible proposal.

Given all that, does anyone have any similar experience, or advice on what to suggest. Assume I know all my numbers, so that’s not an issue, and profitability isn’t an issue. I don’t have any capital, or the covenant to sign a straight lease, and this guy can help with both of those, either by providing a capital contribution or guaranteeing lease finance etc. In return, I’m guessing we should create an SPV and do a profitability/equity split, right? What I’m not so sure on is how that should work- should I build in payment for myself and my tech or should I leave that out as that’ll shake out in the profit share, otherwise I’m double dipping? Should we go for rent free or would the landlord expect a rent from the SPV even though they are an equity partner?

As I say, I appreciate this is something I need to get more formal advice on, but thought I’d just throw it out there, in case anyone can help with ideas or advice, or if there’s anyone out there who could sell me some time/knowledge.

Cheers

Tom

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


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The #1 mistake in community building is doing it by yourself.

Join the list: http://coworkingweekly.com

Listen to the podcast: http://dangerouslyawesome.com/podcast

Where will you be on April 21st?

Thanks for the words of wisdom Alex. Prob should have mentioned that we’ve been talking for almost years now, and carefully treading around each other. I get too busy and we part company for a while and come back, then same happens and this time I go back to them and they’ve not completed on the right kind of deal yet, it’s all been pretty drawn out. Just so happens they’ve finally bought a massive plot to develop.

Obv I know who the main man is as he’s a household name, and his right hand man is from Bath and we all know the same people, so in terms of whether I know I want to work with them, yes. I’ve already decided that it wouldn’t be under The Guild brand, as the thing there is balancing community with commercials (which makes sense as I’m a for profit company operating a not for profit hub I set up), and this would be a pure commercial operation. So I think we’re talking a new brand, something more commercial, using the tech I’ve built, the stuff I’ve learned over the past 3 years, and the fact that everywhere this guy goes asking about who he should work with, everyone point him back to us!

And afraid I’m not the marrying type (unless it’s to coworking ha). Never have and never will, I’m a go it alone kind of guy. My two kids keep me busy enough though :slight_smile:

···

On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 19:52:00 UTC+1, Alex Hillman wrote:

Would you marry someone on the first date?

You’ve put a lot of work into building your operation and your community. Along with it, your credibility.

Even if the numbers look awesome, I’d highly highly highly recommend taking your time getting to know this person. Not saying they aren’t a great business partner - but you owe it to yourself and your hard work to take your time and actually learn what he’s about.

It’s nice to feel wanted. Just don’t let it blind you.

-Alex


The #1 mistake in community building is doing it by yourself.

Join the list: http://coworkingweekly.com

Listen to the podcast: http://dangerouslyawesome.com/podcast

Where will you be on April 21st?

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Tom Lewis [email protected] wrote:

Thanks Jerome. Yes have plugged the numbers into my master spreadsheet that I use to run this space (with a modification to match the difference in local demand in the ratio of coworking/desks/office), and it’s as you’d expect- I could just propose a management fee and make £XXXXX a year, or a JV and make from -£XXXX to +£XXXXXX a year. It’s all risk and return isn’t it like any other business opportunity?

I guess I’m trying to consider there a spectrum from pure “pay me a management fee” and “let’s go 50/50”- and somewhere along that spectrum is a balance that works for me. I’ve tried to look at it from their point of view- they have a building/space which they aren’t going to lose whatever happens (though there is the opportunity cost of rent if they let me have it). They’ve also got pretty much unlimited access to capital. I’ve got the skills and the proof that I can make it work. I’m guessing there’s an element from their side of using a workspace element to smooth the way through the local authority planning process (ie “yes we’re building a hotel but we’re replacing lost commercial space too”), so I have a value there. I just don’t know whether to go in at 50/50, or 80/20, or with a commercial management fee plus less equity, or more equity and a subsidised fee.

Aware that all of these are things I need to figure out myself, maybe just helps to think aloud!

Cheers

Tom

On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 18:53:12 UTC+1, Jerome wrote:

Congrats on this opp!

Have you built a quick biz plan/pro forma to see what kind of #'s are required? That’ll help dictate whether you’ll do a JV or management agreement. In general, I think you should build in payment for your tech and you, but you might consider a base payment/management fee plus a % of the upside, whether that’s thru equity or just gross revenue (a la franchises)

JEROME CHANG

www.BLANKSPACES.com

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 10:39 AM, Tom Lewis [email protected] wrote:

Saw someone bumped an old thread about JVs and it’s prompted me to reach out for some help/advice/thoughts about a major opportunity I have right now. All opinions welcome!

So, as many of you know, I run The Guild in Bath, UK- 3500 sq ft- established 2013- 150 members. Full with a waiting list and negotiating on a new 12k space to grow into. My obsession is automating all the boring stuff so my team can concentrate on making our members day from the moment they walk in. I have never written a line of code in my life, and I use the miracle of Zapier together with a billion cloud based tools (most notably Nexudus and Podio).

I’ve now got to the point where this place runs so well without me I don’t actually need to come here. I’m spending most of my time trying to open Guilds elsewhere, but it’s a tough call right now here in the UK, which is having a major commercial property boom alongside a crazy law which allows anyone with a commercial property to convert it to residential without needing permission- so transferring rare commercial property into red hot residential property at a time that the UK is in a major residential bubble. It’s made property deals incredibly difficult for us, and more so given that there’s now an added dimension here in Bath- developers are going crazy for student developments (we’re a two university city), and even more commercial properties/offices are going away forever.

Anyway, in the midst of all this I’ve been approached by someone who wants to do something with me . This guy is major league. I can’t say who, but you will have heard of him- he’s founder and head of a global fashion brand. He came in when we opened and stayed in touch. He’s got a property fund, and specialises in creating mixed use developments (residential, hotels, offices, leisure on one site).

So, this guy has aquired a plot of land and wants me to come up with a concept for a hub within a development they are proposing. The inference is that if we can build something together in this first plot, then we’ll be popping up whenever they develop other sites. So whereas now it’s a office, a hotel, a restaurant and a cinema, in future he’d drop in all that plus a Guild.

I know the plot and the area is ripe for a coworking space. The demand isn’t an issue, and the model I’ve built here is sound. It’s a 9000 sq ft space, with 5m height in some areas, and that’s all I’ve been given. Before we go any further, he’s asked me what I’d do with it and on what basis. I know these guys have worked on shared revenue/JV basis before, but I don’t know on what exact basis, so I’m keen to come up with a sensible proposal.

Given all that, does anyone have any similar experience, or advice on what to suggest. Assume I know all my numbers, so that’s not an issue, and profitability isn’t an issue. I don’t have any capital, or the covenant to sign a straight lease, and this guy can help with both of those, either by providing a capital contribution or guaranteeing lease finance etc. In return, I’m guessing we should create an SPV and do a profitability/equity split, right? What I’m not so sure on is how that should work- should I build in payment for myself and my tech or should I leave that out as that’ll shake out in the profit share, otherwise I’m double dipping? Should we go for rent free or would the landlord expect a rent from the SPV even though they are an equity partner?

As I say, I appreciate this is something I need to get more formal advice on, but thought I’d just throw it out there, in case anyone can help with ideas or advice, or if there’s anyone out there who could sell me some time/knowledge.

Cheers

Tom

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Glad to hear it. :slight_smile:

-Alex

···

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Tom Lewis [email protected] wrote:

Thanks for the words of wisdom Alex. Prob should have mentioned that we’ve been talking for almost years now, and carefully treading around each other. I get too busy and we part company for a while and come back, then same happens and this time I go back to them and they’ve not completed on the right kind of deal yet, it’s all been pretty drawn out. Just so happens they’ve finally bought a massive plot to develop.

Obv I know who the main man is as he’s a household name, and his right hand man is from Bath and we all know the same people, so in terms of whether I know I want to work with them, yes. I’ve already decided that it wouldn’t be under The Guild brand, as the thing there is balancing community with commercials (which makes sense as I’m a for profit company operating a not for profit hub I set up), and this would be a pure commercial operation. So I think we’re talking a new brand, something more commercial, using the tech I’ve built, the stuff I’ve learned over the past 3 years, and the fact that everywhere this guy goes asking about who he should work with, everyone point him back to us!

And afraid I’m not the marrying type (unless it’s to coworking ha). Never have and never will, I’m a go it alone kind of guy. My two kids keep me busy enough though :slight_smile:

On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 19:52:00 UTC+1, Alex Hillman wrote:

Would you marry someone on the first date?

You’ve put a lot of work into building your operation and your community. Along with it, your credibility.

Even if the numbers look awesome, I’d highly highly highly recommend taking your time getting to know this person. Not saying they aren’t a great business partner - but you owe it to yourself and your hard work to take your time and actually learn what he’s about.

It’s nice to feel wanted. Just don’t let it blind you.

-Alex


The #1 mistake in community building is doing it by yourself.

Join the list: http://coworkingweekly.com

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On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Tom Lewis [email protected] wrote:

Thanks Jerome. Yes have plugged the numbers into my master spreadsheet that I use to run this space (with a modification to match the difference in local demand in the ratio of coworking/desks/office), and it’s as you’d expect- I could just propose a management fee and make £XXXXX a year, or a JV and make from -£XXXX to +£XXXXXX a year. It’s all risk and return isn’t it like any other business opportunity?

I guess I’m trying to consider there a spectrum from pure “pay me a management fee” and “let’s go 50/50”- and somewhere along that spectrum is a balance that works for me. I’ve tried to look at it from their point of view- they have a building/space which they aren’t going to lose whatever happens (though there is the opportunity cost of rent if they let me have it). They’ve also got pretty much unlimited access to capital. I’ve got the skills and the proof that I can make it work. I’m guessing there’s an element from their side of using a workspace element to smooth the way through the local authority planning process (ie “yes we’re building a hotel but we’re replacing lost commercial space too”), so I have a value there. I just don’t know whether to go in at 50/50, or 80/20, or with a commercial management fee plus less equity, or more equity and a subsidised fee.

Aware that all of these are things I need to figure out myself, maybe just helps to think aloud!

Cheers

Tom

On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 18:53:12 UTC+1, Jerome wrote:

Congrats on this opp!

Have you built a quick biz plan/pro forma to see what kind of #'s are required? That’ll help dictate whether you’ll do a JV or management agreement. In general, I think you should build in payment for your tech and you, but you might consider a base payment/management fee plus a % of the upside, whether that’s thru equity or just gross revenue (a la franchises)

JEROME CHANG

www.BLANKSPACES.com

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 10:39 AM, Tom Lewis [email protected] wrote:

Saw someone bumped an old thread about JVs and it’s prompted me to reach out for some help/advice/thoughts about a major opportunity I have right now. All opinions welcome!

So, as many of you know, I run The Guild in Bath, UK- 3500 sq ft- established 2013- 150 members. Full with a waiting list and negotiating on a new 12k space to grow into. My obsession is automating all the boring stuff so my team can concentrate on making our members day from the moment they walk in. I have never written a line of code in my life, and I use the miracle of Zapier together with a billion cloud based tools (most notably Nexudus and Podio).

I’ve now got to the point where this place runs so well without me I don’t actually need to come here. I’m spending most of my time trying to open Guilds elsewhere, but it’s a tough call right now here in the UK, which is having a major commercial property boom alongside a crazy law which allows anyone with a commercial property to convert it to residential without needing permission- so transferring rare commercial property into red hot residential property at a time that the UK is in a major residential bubble. It’s made property deals incredibly difficult for us, and more so given that there’s now an added dimension here in Bath- developers are going crazy for student developments (we’re a two university city), and even more commercial properties/offices are going away forever.

Anyway, in the midst of all this I’ve been approached by someone who wants to do something with me . This guy is major league. I can’t say who, but you will have heard of him- he’s founder and head of a global fashion brand. He came in when we opened and stayed in touch. He’s got a property fund, and specialises in creating mixed use developments (residential, hotels, offices, leisure on one site).

So, this guy has aquired a plot of land and wants me to come up with a concept for a hub within a development they are proposing. The inference is that if we can build something together in this first plot, then we’ll be popping up whenever they develop other sites. So whereas now it’s a office, a hotel, a restaurant and a cinema, in future he’d drop in all that plus a Guild.

I know the plot and the area is ripe for a coworking space. The demand isn’t an issue, and the model I’ve built here is sound. It’s a 9000 sq ft space, with 5m height in some areas, and that’s all I’ve been given. Before we go any further, he’s asked me what I’d do with it and on what basis. I know these guys have worked on shared revenue/JV basis before, but I don’t know on what exact basis, so I’m keen to come up with a sensible proposal.

Given all that, does anyone have any similar experience, or advice on what to suggest. Assume I know all my numbers, so that’s not an issue, and profitability isn’t an issue. I don’t have any capital, or the covenant to sign a straight lease, and this guy can help with both of those, either by providing a capital contribution or guaranteeing lease finance etc. In return, I’m guessing we should create an SPV and do a profitability/equity split, right? What I’m not so sure on is how that should work- should I build in payment for myself and my tech or should I leave that out as that’ll shake out in the profit share, otherwise I’m double dipping? Should we go for rent free or would the landlord expect a rent from the SPV even though they are an equity partner?

As I say, I appreciate this is something I need to get more formal advice on, but thought I’d just throw it out there, in case anyone can help with ideas or advice, or if there’s anyone out there who could sell me some time/knowledge.

Cheers

Tom

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com


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The #1 mistake in community building is doing it by yourself.

Join the list: http://coworkingweekly.com

Listen to the podcast: http://dangerouslyawesome.com/podcast

Where will you be on April 21st?