A universal symbol for coworking

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Liane_Jackson · January 13, 2015, 2:11pm

The Noun Project has a couple of coworking symbols that are free to use:

There was another one cool one there that I don’t see anymore, that I uploaded more than a year ago that has two people typing with a shelter over them. You can take a look at it in my Dropbox link here:

···

On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 4:17:08 PM UTC-6, Fernando Aguirre wrote:

Hello. I’m thinking it would be interesting to be a universal symbol for coworking. So you can easily identify coworking spaces in general. As there is with pharmacies, schools, police, etc.

I believe a symbol can be useful to better spread the concept. As recently done with the Bug Heartbleed: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-28/the-branding-of-a-bug-how-heartbleed-became-a-household-name.html as well as the W3C made with HTML5.

The idea is a universal symbol, distributed free of copyright. In a quick study made a proposal. Is attached. Maybe some more talented designer can propose something better.

What do you think?

Rachel_Young · January 13, 2015, 2:27pm

For the record, this was accepted by some as the universal symbol for coworking: http://wiki.coworking.org/w/file/91218246/old%20coworking%20logo.jpg

And (apologies to its creator) it’s terrible. It only shows coffee and wifi, which could be a cafe, a hotel lounge, or any other place that offers both. It doesn’t say coworking at all, just two of the amenities of a space. Nothing about the core values, nothing about the people.

I like the idea of having something to unite us. It will be tough though. We don’t all agree on the hyphen or the definition of coworking, so an image would be quite difficult too, I’m sure.

r.

···

On 13 January 2015 at 03:00, Coworking Merignac Bordeaux [email protected] wrote:

Well, i am agree with Ramon

Why W,

it will be better to use CW

Best regards

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AquiWork Center Coworking Mérignac
80 Avenue de la Libération 33700 Mérignac CAPEYRON Tél: 00.33.(0)5.33.48.44.46 Mobile : 00.33 (0)6.16.54.75.55 et (0)6.71.47.52.12
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2015-01-13 8:38 GMT+01:00 Ramon Suarez [email protected]:

Why W instead of C or CW?

Who will own the copyright of the symbol?

Who will have the right to use it?

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Chad_Ballantyne · January 13, 2015, 3:10pm

I’m with Rachel - no likey!

The universal symbol for coworking is not a logo, it’s a vibe. Hard to draw a vibe. It’s like trying to “smell the colour 9.”

···

On 13 January 2015 at 03:00, Coworking Merignac Bordeaux [email protected] wrote:

Well, i am agree with Ramon

Why W,

it will be better to use CW

Best regards

–

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____________________
rachel youngrac…@camaraderie.ca

We’re located at 2241 Dundas St W, 3rd floor

(between Bloor and Roncesvalles)

Chat with me via 10KCoffees

Find us online:

We’re a proud member of CoworkingToronto,

**José Louis QUIROS **

Fondateur
AquiWork Center Coworking Mérignac
80 Avenue de la Libération 33700 Mérignac CAPEYRON Tél: 00.33.(0)5.33.48.44.46 Mobile : 00.33 (0)6.16.54.75.55 et (0)6.71.47.52.12
Email: [email protected]

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Conformément
à la Loi “Informatique et Libertés” du 6 janvier 1978 modifiée par la loi du 6 août 2004 (articles 38 à 43 de la Loi N° 78-17 du 6 janvier 1978 relative à l’informatique, aux fichiers et aux libertés), vous pouvez exercer votre droit d’accès aux informations et le cas échéant votre droit de rectification ou de retrait des informations vous concernant en contactant directement notre espace.

2015-01-13 8:38 GMT+01:00 Ramon Suarez [email protected]:

Why W instead of C or CW?

Who will own the copyright of the symbol?

Who will have the right to use it?

–

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Jerome · January 13, 2015, 3:21pm

Accessibility isn’t a logo, it’s a condition or situation. It’s also not relegated to a wheelchair. A logo really won’t blind people much.

Jerome

···

On 13 January 2015 at 03:00, Coworking Merignac Bordeaux [email protected] wrote:

Well, i am agree with Ramon

Why W,

it will be better to use CW

Best regards

–

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

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____________________
rachel youngrac…@camaraderie.ca

We’re located at 2241 Dundas St W, 3rd floor

(between Bloor and Roncesvalles)

Chat with me via 10KCoffees

Find us online:

We’re a proud member of CoworkingToronto,

**José Louis QUIROS **

Fondateur
AquiWork Center Coworking Mérignac
80 Avenue de la Libération 33700 Mérignac CAPEYRON Tél: 00.33.(0)5.33.48.44.46 Mobile : 00.33 (0)6.16.54.75.55 et (0)6.71.47.52.12
Email: [email protected]

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/coworking/coworking$20logo/coworking/Kx-PSRJV6P0/Adyc_cDUuW4J

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Conformément
à la Loi “Informatique et Libertés” du 6 janvier 1978 modifiée par la loi du 6 août 2004 (articles 38 à 43 de la Loi N° 78-17 du 6 janvier 1978 relative à l’informatique, aux fichiers et aux libertés), vous pouvez exercer votre droit d’accès aux informations et le cas échéant votre droit de rectification ou de retrait des informations vous concernant en contactant directement notre espace.

2015-01-13 8:38 GMT+01:00 Ramon Suarez [email protected]:

Why W instead of C or CW?

Who will own the copyright of the symbol?

Who will have the right to use it?

–

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

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Fernando_Aguirre · January 13, 2015, 3:48pm

Guys, thanks for the feedback.

The first thing I think when creating this post is to discuss: We need a universal symbol? It is a good idea? Help the movement?

Second: It is impossible in one symbol represent all that means coworking. If we create one, we need to be selective. Other media help us other meanings.

Third: I am not a Brand Designer. I made an initial proposal to start it. Someone else can do better. But you can see how to build my idea in the attached file.

Responding to Ramon:

I believe that the symbol should not have an owner. It should be free. Distributed by a free license such as Creative Commons. Anyone can use anywhere.

···

On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 10:17:08 PM UTC, Fernando Aguirre wrote:

Hello. I’m thinking it would be interesting to be a universal symbol for coworking. So you can easily identify coworking spaces in general. As there is with pharmacies, schools, police, etc.

I believe a symbol can be useful to better spread the concept. As recently done with the Bug Heartbleed: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-28/the-branding-of-a-bug-how-heartbleed-became-a-household-name.html as well as the W3C made with HTML5.

The idea is a universal symbol, distributed free of copyright. In a quick study made a proposal. Is attached. Maybe some more talented designer can propose something better.

What do you think?

Anderson_Costa · January 13, 2015, 4:13pm

I think i miss people in this icon. Just a feeling.

···

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 1:48:32 PM UTC-2, Fernando Aguirre wrote:

Guys, thanks for the feedback.

The first thing I think when creating this post is to discuss: We need a universal symbol? It is a good idea? Help the movement?

Second: It is impossible in one symbol represent all that means coworking. If we create one, we need to be selective. Other media help us other meanings.

Third: I am not a Brand Designer. I made an initial proposal to start it. Someone else can do better. But you can see how to build my idea in the attached file.

Responding to Ramon:

I believe that the symbol should not have an owner. It should be free. Distributed by a free license such as Creative Commons. Anyone can use anywhere.

On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 10:17:08 PM UTC, Fernando Aguirre wrote:

Hello. I’m thinking it would be interesting to be a universal symbol for coworking. So you can easily identify coworking spaces in general. As there is with pharmacies, schools, police, etc.

I believe a symbol can be useful to better spread the concept. As recently done with the Bug Heartbleed: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-28/the-branding-of-a-bug-how-heartbleed-became-a-household-name.html as well as the W3C made with HTML5.

The idea is a universal symbol, distributed free of copyright. In a quick study made a proposal. Is attached. Maybe some more talented designer can propose something better.

What do you think?

Cadu_de_Castro_Alve1 · January 13, 2015, 4:46pm

Anderson, I think “people” are already represented in the world symbol. Isn’t it, Fernando?

I agree with the other folks about the “C” or “CW”.

I think that a symbol showing people together would work very well, like this one:

Best regards,

Cadu de Castro Alves

CEO & Co-founder

www.deskovery.net

···

Em terça-feira, 13 de janeiro de 2015 14:13:13 UTC-2, Anderson Costa escreveu:

I think i miss people in this icon. Just a feeling.

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 1:48:32 PM UTC-2, Fernando Aguirre wrote:

Guys, thanks for the feedback.

The first thing I think when creating this post is to discuss: We need a universal symbol? It is a good idea? Help the movement?

Second: It is impossible in one symbol represent all that means coworking. If we create one, we need to be selective. Other media help us other meanings.

Third: I am not a Brand Designer. I made an initial proposal to start it. Someone else can do better. But you can see how to build my idea in the attached file.

Responding to Ramon:

I believe that the symbol should not have an owner. It should be free. Distributed by a free license such as Creative Commons. Anyone can use anywhere.

On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 10:17:08 PM UTC, Fernando Aguirre wrote:

Hello. I’m thinking it would be interesting to be a universal symbol for coworking. So you can easily identify coworking spaces in general. As there is with pharmacies, schools, police, etc.

I believe a symbol can be useful to better spread the concept. As recently done with the Bug Heartbleed: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-28/the-branding-of-a-bug-how-heartbleed-became-a-household-name.html as well as the W3C made with HTML5.

The idea is a universal symbol, distributed free of copyright. In a quick study made a proposal. Is attached. Maybe some more talented designer can propose something better.

What do you think?

M.E_Ralph · January 13, 2015, 5:01pm

Fernando,

What an awesome idea! So, who comes up with universal logos? Is it a government agency/department of some kind? If a designer created something like that, what would it take for everyone to adopt it or make it official? I think this is worth pursuing…

···

On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 3:17:08 PM UTC-7, Fernando Aguirre wrote:

Hello. I’m thinking it would be interesting to be a universal symbol for coworking. So you can easily identify coworking spaces in general. As there is with pharmacies, schools, police, etc.

I believe a symbol can be useful to better spread the concept. As recently done with the Bug Heartbleed: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-28/the-branding-of-a-bug-how-heartbleed-became-a-household-name.html as well as the W3C made with HTML5.

The idea is a universal symbol, distributed free of copyright. In a quick study made a proposal. Is attached. Maybe some more talented designer can propose something better.

What do you think?

Fernando_Aguirre · January 13, 2015, 5:36pm

Yes Cadu and Anderson, people can be represented by globe. It is a very difficult to be created symbol. It should represent many things.

But I think also is not very “formal”. I encourage other designers to try to create an option.

···

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 4:46:52 PM UTC, Cadu de Castro Alves wrote:

Anderson, I think “people” are already represented in the world symbol. Isn’t it, Fernando?

I agree with the other folks about the “C” or “CW”.

I think that a symbol showing people together would work very well, like this one:

http://logopond.com/gallery/detail/223294

Best regards,

Cadu de Castro Alves

CEO & Co-founder

www.deskovery.net

Em terça-feira, 13 de janeiro de 2015 14:13:13 UTC-2, Anderson Costa escreveu:

I think i miss people in this icon. Just a feeling.

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 1:48:32 PM UTC-2, Fernando Aguirre wrote:

Guys, thanks for the feedback.

The first thing I think when creating this post is to discuss: We need a universal symbol? It is a good idea? Help the movement?

Second: It is impossible in one symbol represent all that means coworking. If we create one, we need to be selective. Other media help us other meanings.

Third: I am not a Brand Designer. I made an initial proposal to start it. Someone else can do better. But you can see how to build my idea in the attached file.

Responding to Ramon:

I believe that the symbol should not have an owner. It should be free. Distributed by a free license such as Creative Commons. Anyone can use anywhere.

On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 10:17:08 PM UTC, Fernando Aguirre wrote:

Hello. I’m thinking it would be interesting to be a universal symbol for coworking. So you can easily identify coworking spaces in general. As there is with pharmacies, schools, police, etc.

I believe a symbol can be useful to better spread the concept. As recently done with the Bug Heartbleed: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-28/the-branding-of-a-bug-how-heartbleed-became-a-household-name.html as well as the W3C made with HTML5.

The idea is a universal symbol, distributed free of copyright. In a quick study made a proposal. Is attached. Maybe some more talented designer can propose something better.

What do you think?

Fernando_Aguirre · January 13, 2015, 5:43pm

Randall and Ralph, really is a big challenge. As stated, have the idea is easy. People adopt is difficult. Therefore my main question is not whether the symbol is good or not. The main question is: We need a universal symbol?

From this response we can work forward.

I do not know if we have enough maturity to create a company or organization to manage the symbol. I think there may be something informal, to test whether people adopt. Who manages the symbols of WIFI or Wheelchair?

···

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Fernando Aguirre [email protected] wrote:

Yes Cadu and Anderson, people can be represented by globe. It is a very difficult to be created symbol. It should represent many things.

But I think also is not very “formal”. I encourage other designers to try to create an option.

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 4:46:52 PM UTC, Cadu de Castro Alves wrote:

Anderson, I think “people” are already represented in the world symbol. Isn’t it, Fernando?

I agree with the other folks about the “C” or “CW”.

I think that a symbol showing people together would work very well, like this one:

http://logopond.com/gallery/detail/223294

Best regards,

Cadu de Castro Alves

CEO & Co-founder

www.deskovery.net

Em terça-feira, 13 de janeiro de 2015 14:13:13 UTC-2, Anderson Costa escreveu:

I think i miss people in this icon. Just a feeling.

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 1:48:32 PM UTC-2, Fernando Aguirre wrote:

Guys, thanks for the feedback.

The first thing I think when creating this post is to discuss: We need a universal symbol? It is a good idea? Help the movement?

Second: It is impossible in one symbol represent all that means coworking. If we create one, we need to be selective. Other media help us other meanings.

Third: I am not a Brand Designer. I made an initial proposal to start it. Someone else can do better. But you can see how to build my idea in the attached file.

Responding to Ramon:

I believe that the symbol should not have an owner. It should be free. Distributed by a free license such as Creative Commons. Anyone can use anywhere.

On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 10:17:08 PM UTC, Fernando Aguirre wrote:

Hello. I’m thinking it would be interesting to be a universal symbol for coworking. So you can easily identify coworking spaces in general. As there is with pharmacies, schools, police, etc.

I believe a symbol can be useful to better spread the concept. As recently done with the Bug Heartbleed: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-28/the-branding-of-a-bug-how-heartbleed-became-a-household-name.html as well as the W3C made with HTML5.

The idea is a universal symbol, distributed free of copyright. In a quick study made a proposal. Is attached. Maybe some more talented designer can propose something better.

What do you think?

–

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(51) 9440.9452

Matija_Raos · January 13, 2015, 5:47pm

Hi everybody,

It think universal symbol is a good idea and its great that Fernardo started this topic and proposed the solution but I also think it should be done via coworking wiki open call which everybody could distribute and call out designers to come up with creative solution.

Then global coworking community could then vote on best symbol or shortlist it. Participation & community approach is important part of coworking so I think this process although it takes more effort will be more democratic & opened and also it will make some “new connections” and “global content” to share and to collaborate on.

Cheers from Zagreb,

Matija

···

On 13 Jan 2015, at 18:36, Fernando Aguirre [email protected] wrote:

Yes Cadu and Anderson, people can be represented by globe. It is a very difficult to be created symbol. It should represent many things.

But I think also is not very “formal”. I encourage other designers to try to create an option.

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 4:46:52 PM UTC, Cadu de Castro Alves wrote:

Anderson, I think “people” are already represented in the world symbol. Isn’t it, Fernando?

I agree with the other folks about the “C” or “CW”.

I think that a symbol showing people together would work very well, like this one:

http://logopond.com/gallery/detail/223294

Best regards,

Cadu de Castro Alves

CEO & Co-founder

www.deskovery.net

Em terça-feira, 13 de janeiro de 2015 14:13:13 UTC-2, Anderson Costa escreveu:

I think i miss people in this icon. Just a feeling.

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 1:48:32 PM UTC-2, Fernando Aguirre wrote:

Guys, thanks for the feedback.

The first thing I think when creating this post is to discuss: We need a universal symbol? It is a good idea? Help the movement?

Second: It is impossible in one symbol represent all that means coworking. If we create one, we need to be selective. Other media help us other meanings.

Third: I am not a Brand Designer. I made an initial proposal to start it. Someone else can do better. But you can see how to build my idea in the attached file.

Responding to Ramon:

I believe that the symbol should not have an owner. It should be free. Distributed by a free license such as Creative Commons. Anyone can use anywhere.

On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 10:17:08 PM UTC, Fernando Aguirre wrote:

Hello. I’m thinking it would be interesting to be a universal symbol for coworking. So you can easily identify coworking spaces in general. As there is with pharmacies, schools, police, etc.

I believe a symbol can be useful to better spread the concept. As recently done with the Bug Heartbleed: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-28/the-branding-of-a-bug-how-heartbleed-became-a-household-name.html as well as the W3C made with HTML5.

The idea is a universal symbol, distributed free of copyright. In a quick study made a proposal. Is attached. Maybe some more talented designer can propose something better.

What do you think?

–

Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Coworking” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected].

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

wbennis · January 14, 2015, 1:14pm

Hi Folks,

This seems to be in part a re-hash of a very old (2007) discussion on this same group that might be worth looking at first:

I think it’s a very useful earlier conversation for several reasons:

It’s actively constructed by some of the early and most important creators of the coworking movement
It puts forth the starfish as a central image for coworking and explains why
It puts forth a clear argument as to why some kind of symbol for a movement might be an important thing.
They created a logo page on the wiki as a workplace for people to try to create the ideal form, with many examples for people to contribute to: http://wiki.coworking.org/w/page/16583882/Logo
My sense is they were pretty far along in the conversation, so we’d do well to start there.

Best,

Will

···

On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 11:17:08 PM UTC+1, Fernando Aguirre wrote:

Hello. I’m thinking it would be interesting to be a universal symbol for coworking. So you can easily identify coworking spaces in general. As there is with pharmacies, schools, police, etc.

I believe a symbol can be useful to better spread the concept. As recently done with the Bug Heartbleed: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-28/the-branding-of-a-bug-how-heartbleed-became-a-household-name.html as well as the W3C made with HTML5.

The idea is a universal symbol, distributed free of copyright. In a quick study made a proposal. Is attached. Maybe some more talented designer can propose something better.

What do you think?

Fernando_Aguirre · January 14, 2015, 4:20pm

Will, thanks for the reference. I think that helps a lot.

My opinion (I confess I have not read everything yet):

I loved the idea of Starfish. I think that makes a lot of sense. But I’m not sure if it is easy to recognize. “P” looks like Parking. “X” seems prohibited. Wheelchair, seems a wheelchair.

I remember the point I raised is a symbol. Not a logo. It is to be recognized. It is not to spend the concept of coworking.

Technical differences over a symbol for logo: Symbol has no color. Has no slogan. Has no illustration. No more message. It is simply recognized. How Hotspot Wi-Fi.

Although I love the idea of Starfish, I think that a simple coffee mug would be a better symbol for coworking.

What do you think?

···

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Will Bennis, Locus Workspace [email protected] wrote:

Hi Folks,

This seems to be in part a re-hash of a very old (2007) discussion on this same group that might be worth looking at first:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/coworking/coworking$20logo/coworking/Kx-PSRJV6P0/Adyc_cDUuW4J

I think it’s a very useful earlier conversation for several reasons:

It’s actively constructed by some of the early and most important creators of the coworking movement

It puts forth the starfish as a central image for coworking and explains why

It puts forth a clear argument as to why some kind of symbol for a movement might be an important thing.

They created a logo page on the wiki as a workplace for people to try to create the ideal form, with many examples for people to contribute to: http://wiki.coworking.org/w/page/16583882/Logo
My sense is they were pretty far along in the conversation, so we’d do well to start there.

Best,

Will

On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 11:17:08 PM UTC+1, Fernando Aguirre wrote:

Hello. I’m thinking it would be interesting to be a universal symbol for coworking. So you can easily identify coworking spaces in general. As there is with pharmacies, schools, police, etc.

I believe a symbol can be useful to better spread the concept. As recently done with the Bug Heartbleed: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-28/the-branding-of-a-bug-how-heartbleed-became-a-household-name.html as well as the W3C made with HTML5.

The idea is a universal symbol, distributed free of copyright. In a quick study made a proposal. Is attached. Maybe some more talented designer can propose something better.

What do you think?

–

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wbennis · January 15, 2015, 12:58pm

Hi Fernando,

I get your point and it makes sense.

I’d like a simple icon with two people at a desk more than a mug, which to me doesn’t convey coworking, but I’m no graphic designer.

I’m still not clear on the value of a standardized “coworking” icon, though. The “wifi hotspot” or “no smoking” icons are useful for cafes and restaurants because it’s an optional feature that might influence my choice to enter. It’s hard for me to picture someone walking by a business that isn’t obviously a coworking space, seeing the icon and saying, “Hey that place has coworking; I’m going in.”

Best,

Will

···

On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 5:21:15 PM UTC+1, Fernando Aguirre wrote:

Will, thanks for the reference. I think that helps a lot.

My opinion (I confess I have not read everything yet):

I loved the idea of Starfish. I think that makes a lot of sense. But I’m not sure if it is easy to recognize. “P” looks like Parking. “X” seems prohibited. Wheelchair, seems a wheelchair.

I remember the point I raised is a symbol. Not a logo. It is to be recognized. It is not to spend the concept of coworking.

Technical differences over a symbol for logo: Symbol has no color. Has no slogan. Has no illustration. No more message. It is simply recognized. How Hotspot Wi-Fi.

Although I love the idea of Starfish, I think that a simple coffee mug would be a better symbol for coworking.

What do you think?

ᐧ

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Will Bennis, Locus Workspace [email protected] wrote:

Hi Folks,

This seems to be in part a re-hash of a very old (2007) discussion on this same group that might be worth looking at first:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/coworking/coworking$20logo/coworking/Kx-PSRJV6P0/Adyc_cDUuW4J

I think it’s a very useful earlier conversation for several reasons:

It’s actively constructed by some of the early and most important creators of the coworking movement

It puts forth the starfish as a central image for coworking and explains why

It puts forth a clear argument as to why some kind of symbol for a movement might be an important thing.

They created a logo page on the wiki as a workplace for people to try to create the ideal form, with many examples for people to contribute to: http://wiki.coworking.org/w/page/16583882/Logo
My sense is they were pretty far along in the conversation, so we’d do well to start there.

Best,

Will

On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 11:17:08 PM UTC+1, Fernando Aguirre wrote:

Hello. I’m thinking it would be interesting to be a universal symbol for coworking. So you can easily identify coworking spaces in general. As there is with pharmacies, schools, police, etc.

I believe a symbol can be useful to better spread the concept. As recently done with the Bug Heartbleed: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-28/the-branding-of-a-bug-how-heartbleed-became-a-household-name.html as well as the W3C made with HTML5.

The idea is a universal symbol, distributed free of copyright. In a quick study made a proposal. Is attached. Maybe some more talented designer can propose something better.

What do you think?

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Phil_Wolff · January 22, 2015, 5:55pm

Is there a symbol for caffeine?

Rachel_Young · January 22, 2015, 8:13pm

Nope, no one can sit still long enough to make a symbol for caffeine.

r.

···

On 22 January 2015 at 12:55, Phil Wolff [email protected] wrote:

Is there a symbol for caffeine?

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